I don’t like the idea of cruisers being the only sea unit to move 3, especially since destroyers were faster.
Cruisers were faster than destroyers and also had greater range.
You might be thinking of modern destroyers.
I heard an interesting proposition from someone that we could possibly give Cruisers an anti-aircraft shot before combat begins… or something like that. It would certainly make them more useful and a better buy. I think cruisers moving 3 is a little redundant, especially since most ships can move 3 now. Moving 4 spaces seems a bit unrealistic… and to be honest, moving more is not really an incentive for me to buy them. The main reason I would buy them is for purposes other than movement. Most of the time you’d want them to stay with your other ships anyway.
As for tac-bombers… I really like the idea of them choosing targets, on the FIRST round of combat. It was a rule that I thought came from Larry himself, but was not included in the rulebook. I think they become much more strategically important with this this ability. My initial reaction is to have tac-bombers choose targets only when attacking naval units… but that may not give Germany/Russia enough incentive to purchase more of them… so them choosing when attack land units should be okay too I guess.
I heard an interesting proposition from someone that we could possibly give Cruisers an anti-aircraft shot before combat begins
I started that and also the move 3 spaces idea. I think either of them is of equal value and can be used ( use one) to account for the extra cost for Cruisers.
The AA idea is one roll for each CA ( 3 CA = 3 Rolls) hitting at 1 prior to start of combat.
They also get a ASW but that works with a new tech or modified tech tree ( of which both Planes and CA can attack subs w/o DD being present)
What i do is give Tac bombers choice of target every round of combat, but defending fighters can target Tac bombers to nullify this. Also any ship that is tageted by a Tac bomber not enguaged in combat with a fighter gets a premptive AA roll. Balances out nicely. :-)
On land only artillery and mech inf can fire back at FIghters and tac bombers. Tac bombers can pic targets every round of combat but if no artillery or mech inf present planes can only attack one round.
What i do is give Tac bombers choice of target every round of combat, but defending fighters can target Tac bombers to nullify this. Also any ship that is tageted by a Tac bomber not enguaged in combat with a fighter gets a premptive AA roll. Balances out nicely. :-)
This seems a bit too complicated… not that it isn’t understandable, but it makes for a more complex and drawn out engagement.
@Imperious:
I heard an interesting proposition from someone that we could possibly give Cruisers an anti-aircraft shot before combat begins
I started that and also the move 3 spaces idea. I think either of them is of equal value and can be used ( use one) to account for the extra cost for Cruisers.
The AA idea is one roll for each CA ( 3 CA = 3 Rolls) hitting at 1 prior to start of combat.
I like the AA idea… but not so much the movement one. Like I said, to me, an extra movement is not enough to get me to buy a cruiser. I’d prefer some combat benefit. Is there any particular reason or recurring circumstance where extra movement is worthwhile?
Alittle bit, depends if your game is checkers or chess. Adds alot of strategy in naval battles and you never know if the dice will let those tac bombers thru. i love that. playtest if you get the chance.
Alittle bit, depends if your game is checkers or chess. Adds alot of strategy in naval battles and you never know if the dice will let those tac bombers thru. i love that. playtest if you get the chance.
I wouldn’t mind playtesting it. I will give you that the application is very historically accurate, which makes me more inclined.
Its really not too complicated, I remember when rolling to detect subs seemed like a complication. but look what it added to gameplay.
I think cruisers are fine how they are. Tac bombers too. I buy a few cruisers as america for bombards, and a lot for england once the german navy is dead. Although destroyers are more hit efficient, cruisers also bombard, so it’s like killing two birds with one stone. Just buy enough cruisers to defend from the german air-force, and then you are not only protected, but you get more hits on invasions. And tac-bombers are frickin 1 ipc more than fighters. just one. Honestly, it’s better to have a unit with 4 attack and 3 defense than the other way around. Why some may ask? b/c you will attack with fighters more than you will defend with them. With inf, this is usually not the case. Like on the russian front. You inf will attack and take a territory. Then they will most likely die that turn, or possibly the one after. Nobody puts their air-force where the enemy can attack in anyways, not only b/c of them having to land back in friendly zones, but b/c you don’t want to have them destroyed on the ground.
My motto is why buy a cruiser when you can have a fighter? Fighters attack the same, defend better, move farther, cost less and can attack the whole round of an amphib assault, unlike the 1 bombard then out for a Cruiser. With airbases, having a fighter is like having another battleship to defend with… I say go for carrier and fighters, much better than 3 cruisers.
My motto is why buy a cruiser when you can have a fighter? Fighters attack the same, defend better, move farther, cost less and can attack the whole round of an amphib assault, unlike the 1 bombard then out for a Cruiser. With airbases, having a fighter is like having another battleship to defend with… I say go for carrier and fighters, much better than 3 cruisers.
Yes, but Cruisers can’t be killed in a strafe. You’d rather invade with 2 inf and 2 cruiser bombards against 3 tanks and a fighter than 2 inf and 2 fighters
I am
Am I the only one that does CA/DD combos? The perks of ASW and Bombardment, for the bargin of a two for one basis of a BB. That said, I am fond of an CA anti-air ability. No doubt a further incentive for me, or others, to purchase them.
My motto is why buy a cruiser when you can have a fighter? Fighters attack the same, defend better, move farther, cost less and can attack the whole round of an amphib assault, unlike the 1 bombard then out for a Cruiser. With airbases, having a fighter is like having another battleship to defend with… I say go for carrier and fighters, much better than 3 cruisers.
Yes, but Cruisers can’t be killed in a strafe. You’d rather invade with 2 inf and 2 cruiser bombards against 3 tanks and a fighter than 2 inf and 2 fighters
Yes fighters can be killed, but that is the risk you have to take for their multiple attacks in a combat. I would rather not even do that attack you mentioned above, the odds are totally against you. You would almost certainly kill more enemy units with 2 inf and 2 fighters than 2 inf and 2 cruiser bombards.
Unless you were saying that I would rather lose 2 inf, but take out 2 tanks with the cruiser shots… basically doing a suicide attack to thin the enemy… right? In that case, yes, I’d rather have the Cruisers. But that situation appears far less in practice than being common enough to outweigh the use of another fighter instead. Obviously what you’d want to buy depends on your application and situation. But for the most part, I’d rather have a fighter. After that one attack, the cruiser is basically 12 IPCs sitting in the ocean with no great benefit to the rest of your forces. Whereas a fighter can still be very useful.
Is there any particular reason or recurring circumstance where extra movement is worthwhile?
How about with the US or Japan in the Pacific where you might need to move new naval units up to join the main fleet faster?
@SAS:
Is there any particular reason or recurring circumstance where extra movement is worthwhile?
How about with the US or Japan in the Pacific where you might need to move new naval units up to join the main fleet faster?
Yes that is an obvious application, and no doubt useful at times, but for me it is not enough incentive to BUY a cruiser over a fighter or something else even. For Japan/US it is better to have carriers most of the time anyway, so I’d prefer to buy planes instead. They can join up just as quickly with a far away force. … Now, I realize that you need some ships to absorb hits in a fleet. But for that purpose it is better to use subs or destroyers, since they are less expensive. I used to be really into Cruisers… and I still think they are cool. But I don’t see them as being as useful as I once did. I am not saying I never buy a cruiser, but I rarely do it now.
That’s true, a fighter for 10 with 4 movement in most cases would be better for reinforcement than a cruiser for 12 even if it has 3 movement, assuming you have undamaged carriers to land them on…
Tactical bombers though I actually really like. I think they’re going to see a lot of action on the Eastern Front with Germany as part of a mech+tank+tac combo. For 1 extra IPC than a fighter and 1 less than a strategic bomber you get the attack power of a strategic bomber with the almost the same defensive boost as a fighter. Yeah, it has 2 less movement than the strat and 1 less defense than the fighter, but I think it’s the perfect balance between offense and defense that Germany needs for the Eastern Front. It might just work great for Russia too in combination with a few tanks in order to make an offensive strike force to support all the defensive infantry and artillery.
