• @LHoffman:

    @purplebaron:

    Further, the airbase is far superior to a carrier on defense because it acts as a force multiplyer (you have to be strong enough to simultaneously win the approach naval battle and the land battle).

    Can you explain this statement a bit for me?

    Sure.  Basically, in order for an attacker to amphibiously assault an island, they have to first win any battles in the sea zone, and then conduct their land battle.  Since moving into the sea zone is a combat move, the island airbase scramble rule gives the defender the option to scramble some or all of their fighters into battle in the sea zone.  The key is that the scrambling is optional, and that the attacker has to assign his units to the land or sea battle before the scrambling decision is made.  Here’s an example:

    An Italian attack force of BB, CA, 2xtransport each with 1 INF and 1 ART attack Malta.  Additionally, the Italians have 2 fighters and a bomber to support.  Malta has 2 infantry and 4 fighters defending.  Without an airbase, this is an attack that should win with ease, but with an airbase, it becomes a chancy proposition.

    Case 1: All of the aircraft are assigned to attack the island, then the defender scrambles all their aircraft to defend the sea zone, giving BB+CA vs 4Fighters.  That’s a losing battle, so the attacker retreats after the first round, probably having lost the CA and a hit on the BB, possibly losing the BB as well, transports are safe for the moment (unless UK gets really lucky with four hits).  The Italians most likely destroy one fighter.  Meanwhile, on the land, two fighters and a bomber attack two infantry.  They probably win in one at the cost of a figher.  On UKs turn, they counter attack the sea zone with three fighters against a damaged BB with two loaded transports that couldn’t unload (due to the aborted amphibious assault).  The UK fighters win, probably losing another fighter.  End result, Italy loses BB, CA, 2x transport, 2 INF, 2 ART, and a fighter.  UK loses 2 fighters and 2 infantry and holds the island for another turn.  IPC losses are 70 to 26.

    Case 2: All aircraft are assigned to attack the sea zone.  UK chooses not to scramble, and defend the island.  Italy is attacking with 2 inf, 2 art, and two offshores vs 2 inf and 4 fighters.  One offshore hits and one inf or artillery hits (two if they’re lucky).  The defender gets three hits, leaving a single art for round 2.  Maybe it gets lucky and gets one more hit.  Most likely outcome is the attackers lose 2 inf and 2 art to destroy 2 inf and maybe a fighter.  That’s about even, but now there are three fighters that can attack your BB and CA and transports (and probably a bomber or two from UK), swinging the tide in UK’s favor.

    Case 3: The aircraft get split:  This is where it gets tricky, and Italy can probably choose a split where it just barely wins whichever way the brits choose (I think 2 fighters in the sea zone and the bomber on the land is just about right).  Let’s try that.  If the fighters stay on the land, it’s the same as Case 2 above plus a bomber on the attack.  UK loses two more fighters in exchange for the bomber, still holding the island but taking about even losses.  If the fighters scramble, it’s BB, CA and two fighters (3 3s and a 4 plus a soak) against 4 fighters (4 4s).  Very close.  Round 1, Italy expects 2 hits, UK expects 2.66 hits.  If UK gets 3 hits, it’s a 3 and a 4 with no more soak against 2 4s, which is a slight advantage to the brits.  If they only get two hits in the first round, then the extra attacking unit means that the Italians probably win.  Assuming the Italians retreat if it goes badly in the first round, then the losses are CA+fighter or 2x fighter against 2xfighters, then they probably lose the Bomber in the first round in exchange for an infantry.  If the Italians win the naval battle, they probably lose two fighters and the cruiser for four fighters, then win the land battle handily.

    There are a lot of choices there and opportunities for the dice to send things one way or another, so it’s hard to peg who has the advantage.  However, in the case of an attack, the Italians would have to choose Case 3, splitting their air force, giving the Brits (with an inferior force) the opportunity to choose between two different scenarios, each of which they expect to win while extracting roughly equal or slightly favorable unit value, and where even if they lose, they put up a good accounting for themselves.  Without the airbase, they expect to lose while taking most likely three land units and a fighter (possibly 2) for roughly 2 to 1 unit value loss ratio.

    In summary, the airbase is a force multiplier because it forces the attacker to act as though the fighters are both on the land and defending the sea zone.

    EDIT: Added Summary


  • Very good purplebaron!…although I see it as Malta being controlled by the Italians, and the Allies making the attack on the Italian fleet with Axis CAP as the most likely scenario.

    On Italy’s first turn they should move their entire fleet to the eastern Med invading Syria and Palestine…stay there on the second turn and invade Egypt(in conjunction with other units by way of land of course)…the SZ that borders Egypt and Syria(I cant see what number that SZ is).  What can UK do to the Italian fleet out there?  On the third turn the Italian fleet can invade Malta with Axis air swarming all over the Med.  I dont see how UK can stop the Axis from taking Malta on the third turn…maybe someone can tell explain how that would work?

    Malta then becomes an unsinkable CV for the Italian fleet.  Italy/Axis can place as much air on Malta as they need to, to provide CAP for the Italian fleet…with Italy building the occaisional SUB, and building as many INF and ARM as they can in Egypt.  Its going to be a very tough first few turns for the Allies.  That being said, I dont think the game is won in the Med or Africa…a lot will depend on what Germany does, and of course the die rolls.

    Is there any chance this web site will provide IM-type game rooms with internet die rollers so we can all play head to head in real time?


  • The more I look at it, the more I think you’re right that Egypt will fall on I2, at least in Europe alone.  In global, I think the UK play will be (assuming no J1 attack, which seems to be the way of things):  UK1, use existing pacific transports to occupy DEI.  Build two new transports in India.  UK2, Transports in India bring 4 inf from West India plus maybe a plane or two to help shore up Egypt.  Without that, though, I don’t see how UK holds off the Italians.  Maybe the Gibraltar fleet has to nuke one of the two starting Italian fleets.


  • FOOLS!!!  Malta will be the LEAST of your worries!!!  Remove as many fighters from Britain as you want; Sealion will be successful!!!  AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!…

    Ahem.  Please check out my AAE40 Sealion thread, it’s a real doozy.


  • I think doing both or either one are very valid…probably the Italian fleet in SZ92 would be the one to go after…which would make the Italian first moves less potent, and with the additional INF from India, really could stall out the Italian attack.

    However, after playing AAP40 we noticed that it was best for Japan to DOW on turn 1, and if UK does not build almost all INF, they will lose India…they will lose it anyway from our experience…although faster if UK does not build all INF.

    SgtBlitz did a great analysis of a possible Sea Lion, which would proabably mean all hands on deck for UK including the CV/TAC/DD UK has in SZ91…which means no nuking the Italian fleet in SZ92.  Also, that would be a suicide mission for UK to go into SZ92…next turn the Germans can wipe them out.


  • The Sea Lion thing scares me.  I’m less worried about J1 attack because I think it will bring Russia into the war, which means that Russia will begin snapping up German territories in Eastern Europe before Germany can fortify them.  In that case, UK-Pacific will have at least one turn of boosted income from capturing some of the Dutch East Indies, which will give them enough to support Africa and still survive the Japanese attack.


  • @purplebaron:

    Here’s another interesting twist on the whole Med thing.  Italy can bring units to Libya every turn with a single fleet, but if Italy is trying to transport to Egypt or Alexandria, they need two fleets to deliver units every turn.  If Malta is fortified, Italy will have to invest a LOT of production to get two fleets that can survive the air strike.

    Thats it Purplebaron! you just hit it out of the park!


  • If Japan DOW’s UK, will that bring in USSR?  That would be a-historical.  I think some of your concerns can be addressed with slight adjustments to the at start forces for a Global game.


  • @miamibeach:

    What is ILs World at War?  I play World in Flames by ADG…the best WWII game created(that I know about).  Its probably the most popular too with 4 world-wide annual cons(Germany, Australia, California, and Michigan).  There is a very active Yahoo support list/group, and Matrix Games is working on a computer version…probably out in about two years.

    Miamibeach, its Axis n Allies on a 8x4 board with similar to AAG40 but IL designed it like 10 yrs ago. The new AAG40 is alittle different with a few updated concepts, but this guys way ahead of the curve.


  • I don’t understand how Egypt is supposed to fall turn 2 and be held.  Italy only has 4 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 2 Mechanized Infantry, 1 Tank in range, not counting the transports.  But, there are around 7 allied boats in the area, one of which is a carrier.  UK also has 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Tank, 1 Fighter, plus 2 more inf and an art all within 1 move of Egypt.  If Italy moves its fleet to hit Egypt it will most likely loose that fleet.  In addition there are 3 french inf on the other side that can start to gobble at italy’s heel, plus a minor factory 4 squares way, but only 1 move away by transport.  Using an existing transport 2 inf that start down there can also be in egypt on turn 2.  The only way I see Egypt falling on turn 2 is if Germany goes hardcore sea lion.  Otherwise Italy should take a little more time and build up her force so she can not only take egypt, but hold it.  Now with a hardcore sea lion, then yes you want to gobble UK IPCs as fast as humanly possible.

    I would actually move down and take either Syria turn 1, or start eating the french territories and taking malta on turn 1 starting a shuck.  Syria is fun because you can move to Iraq and activate 3 free inf, plus strike at Persia/India, allowing you to surround Egypt on both sides.  You can also put a minor in Iraq and use it to keep Russia honest in the south.  If you go balls to the wall at egypt your just going to take it, then loose it, and then face operation torch on the other side of Africa on the following turn.


  • @SgtBlitz:

    FOOLS!!!  Malta will be the LEAST of your worries!!!  Remove as many fighters from Britain as you want; Sealion will be successful!!!  AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!…

    Ahem.  Please check out my AAE40 Sealion thread, it’s a real doozy.

    It’s a tough thing to do, it can’t always work!


  • Turn 2:  Italy:  4 INF(plus one more that invads Transjordan)=5 INF, 2 MECH, 1 ARTY, 1 ARM(plus one that invades Transjordan)=2 ARM, 2 FTR’s from Italy.  Thats, IT=1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3 vs UK=2,2,2,2,3,4(assuming the FTR stays there).  Thats a win for Italy.  Italy can get 1 TRS to SZ98.

    The French INF on Italy’s heel are stopped by the two INF in Libya.  There is no TRS in S. Africa, unless you think buying one there would be a good idea…in which case UK is not building 9 INF in UK for Sea Lion.  Germany should at the very least threaten Sea Lion by BOTH destroying the RAF and with its initial builds to force UK to both try to stop it with its fleet AND prepare for Sea Lion by building 9 INF in UK.

    If the UK player does the right thing by using the CV/TAC and DD to try to avert Sea Lion, then Italy can get another INF and ARM, plus shore bombardment.

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