Bismarck
Why do people compare Napoleon to Hitler?
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Also, I LOLed when you said Napoleon III increased French presitige. Franco-Prussian war anyone?
You seem to assume that the Franco-Prussian War happened immediately after Napoleon III took power. :roll:
You haven’t shown how the Brits were trying to reenter via Spain.
Let’s see. By 1808 Spain was on the brink of civil war, with one side (Charles IV) being nothing but a puppet for the real powers of Spain (Godoy), and with the other one who hated France, Napoleon, and the Revolution (Ferdinand). Do you really think that once Ferdinand was in power the British would not try to get Spain to join the anti-French crusade?
Let me give you an example of the British determination and will to intervene not just in Spanish affairs but in general Iberian affairs. In 1807 Napoleon was determined to close down all trade to Continental Europe from Britain. Since Portugal was still maintaining a lively trade with Britain, Napoleon quite bluntly asked them to join the Continental System or would be considered an enemy of France. Harsh, but remember his iron will to try to destroy Britain economically comes from the fact that Britain rejected multiple offers of peace and negotiation from Napoleon since 1803.
A Franco-Spanish force invaded Portugal once they refused to close down to British trade. When the French were approaching Lisbon the current Portugese regent, John VI, expressed the desire to negotiate with the French commander (Junot), and to possibly negotiate further with Napoleon on the Continental System, but the British commander of the Royal Navy, Admiral Parker, told him that if that was the case, he had orders to seize the Portugese fleet and burn and bombard Lisbon. Basically they had threatened to do the same thing to Lisbon as they did to Cophenhagen, once in 1801 and again in 1807, except on a much larger scale. Thus the Portugese fleet and treasure sailed from Lisbon under Royal Navy escort, with their destination at Brazil.
Clearly the acts of a government that was fighting the “tyranny” of Napoleon and wanting to bring “peace” to Europe: burning or threatning to burn capitals of nations that either would not abide by Britain’s policy or would be willing to abide by Napoleon’s policy. Where do you see Napoleon threatening to burn entire cities? Citing Moscow is a mistake: he never sent the order to burn it, and even if he did that would be completely unlike him: why set fire to a city that could serve as winter quarters for his army?
I don’t deny that the Peninsular War is not Napoleon’s fault. It is, but only partly.
As far as the British making him fight defensive wars I dont really think that is the case, Napoleon was stirring up trouble all over Britains empire, in India, Canada and the former colony of the United States. Napoleon made the mistake of thinking he could defeat the British in a global war and win the war against the kingdoms of Europe much like Hitler he made the mistake of fighting the war on too many fronts with limited resources.
What? Napoleon never fought Britain in Canada, India, or the United States.
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Well, Napoleon threatened to invade Portugal which is arguably just as bad.
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@UN:
As far as the British making him fight defensive wars I dont really think that is the case, Napoleon was stirring up trouble all over Britains empire, in India, Canada and the former colony of the United States. Napoleon made the mistake of thinking he could defeat the British in a global war and win the war against the kingdoms of Europe much like Hitler he made the mistake of fighting the war on too many fronts with limited resources.
What? Napoleon never fought Britain in Canada, India, or the United States.
Not fought, stirred up trouble. Napoleon or more correctly the French gave the Americans the idea that they could invade and annex Canada hence the war of 1812, there by diverting British resources away from campaigns in continental Europe. Also during Napoleon’s rule the French tried to insight revolution in idea with very little success as most Indians realised they would be trading one foreign master for another.
So while not taking any direct military action the French and so therefore Napoleon managed to fight a not so covert war against British dominions.
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Well, Napoleon threatened to invade Portugal which is arguably just as bad.
As I said, he might have expressed his intentions somewhat bluntly and tactlessly. After all he had told the Portugese diplomat:
“I will not tolerate a single English representative in Europe. If Portugal does not do as I wish, the house of Braganza will no longer reign in Europe two months hence.”
But again, calvin, this all stems from the inability of the British government to make peace or even negotiate with Napoleonic France in any way. All offers of some sort of compromise and peace offerings were all rejected by the British. Napoleon realized that if he could not exorcise the demon of war in its own cave (i.e. invading Britain), then he should strangle it economically. I’m not saying the Continental System was good. Napoleon was quite aware of its negative effects on his allies and even closed his eyes to certain discrepancies. But if I was him, I would also certainly have a much more determined will to force England to come to terms after multiple rejections of peace, wouldn’t you think?
Not fought, stirred up trouble. Napoleon or more correctly the French gave the Americans the idea that they could invade and annex Canada hence the war of 1812, there by diverting British resources away from campaigns in continental Europe. Also during Napoleon’s rule the French tried to insight revolution in idea with very little success as most Indians realised they would be trading one foreign master for another.
So while not taking any direct military action the French and so therefore Napoleon managed to fight a not so covert war against British dominions.
I’m not really sure if the War of 1812 was really caused by Napoleon directly, or even Imperial France. The forced conscription of American sailors into the Royal Navy had a much bigger part of it, as was the British sending military support to certain Native American tribes.
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I’m not saying the threat is unjustified. I’m just saying that it is about as justified as the British threat to burn Lisbon.
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I’m not saying the threat is unjustified. I’m just saying that it is about as justified as the British threat to burn Lisbon.
An invasion of Portugal does not mean that the French will simply pillage and plunder and burn its way through the countryside. Napoleon despised that sort of horrifying way of waging war first off, and when he occupied Portugal he did not threaten to burn a defenseless city. The British directly threatened to burn Lisbon, which is not the same as conducting an invasion. Anything can happen in an “invasion”.
Plus, as I had stated, the Royal Navy’s record wasn’t exactly clean before that, what with bombarding Copenhagen TWICE in 1801 and 1807 and seizing the Danish fleet.
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Well, Napoleon threatened to invade Portugal which is arguably just as bad.
Why didn’t he?
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@Dylan:
Well, Napoleon threatened to invade Portugal which is arguably just as bad.
Why didn’t he?
France and Spain did invade Portugal, but did not burn and bombard it, as the British navy had threatened to do with Lisbon.
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haha
even better
Napoleon invaded russia 23th of June, Hitler the 22th XD -
@Frontovik:
haha
even better
Napoleon invaded russia 23th of June, Hitler the 22th XDRather it be June than December 23!
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Napoleon invaded russia 23th of June, Hitler the 22th XD
That just proves they were reincarnations of each other. They make the same moves and get the same results.
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@Imperious:
Napoleon invaded russia 23th of June, Hitler the 22th XD
That just proves they were reincarnations of each other. They make the same moves and get the same results.
Why would that prove anything about reincarnations? June is simply the best time to invade a country like Russia. Or perhaps Hitler studied Napoleon’s invasion and placed it around the same date for whatever deluded reason.
Also, the original date for Barbarossa was to be May 15, 1941. They invaded Russia for two entirely different reasons, one was right to invade, the other invading merely for “living space”.
And another thing: the French invaded on the 24th.
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UN, I have a somewhat unrelated question. After Trafalgar, why couldn’t Britain amphibiously invade France?
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UN, I have a somewhat unrelated question. After Trafalgar, why couldn’t Britain amphibiously invade France?
Well, having failed in its attempts in 1793 and 1799, Napoleon was pretty confident they wouldn’t try to invade Holland or France anytime soon. There were 40,000 men of the 3rd and Depot battalions of the Grande Armee stationed in France, strengthened by a further 30,000 National Guards and conscripts. The British Army was spread all across the Empire; Canada, India, in Sicily as well. In 1793 its strength was barely 40,000 and by 1805 little had changed of that number (though by 1813 the Army was up to about 250,000). And on the other side of the coin the British spent much of its military spending on the Royal Navy.
Actually, if the French had successfully invaded Britain, I doubt the British Army would have been able to defeat it in an up-front battle. Sure, the Royal Navy might cut them off, but Napoleon made the necessary plans for the Grande Armee to survive independently for quite an extended period of time before it required supplies in England.
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Ah yes, its army is, as usual, way inferior to its navy.
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Ah yes, its army is, as usual, way inferior to its navy.
Quite. But by 1813 and 1814 it had improved remarkably, filled with veterans of the Peninsular War. Plus, the British Army was one of the only, if not THE only, Army to have not suffered a major defeat by Napoleon.
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@UN:
Ah yes, its army is, as usual, way inferior to its navy.
Quite. But by 1813 and 1814 it had improved remarkably, filled with veterans of the Peninsular War. Plus, the British Army was one of the only, if not THE only, Army to have not suffered a major defeat by Napoleon.
Probably because it hadn’t fought on land yet until Waterloo? Is there any other major battle involving the British army?
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@UN:
Ah yes, its army is, as usual, way inferior to its navy.
Quite. But by 1813 and 1814 it had improved remarkably, filled with veterans of the Peninsular War. Plus, the British Army was one of the only, if not THE only, Army to have not suffered a major defeat by Napoleon.
Probably because it hadn’t fought on land yet until Waterloo? Is there any other major battle involving the British army?
Well, you had the constant rebellions and quarrels going on in India (which is actually what Wellington was doing before he got involved in Spain), you had the War of 1812, and I recall the British being expelled from Buenos Aires by the Spanish sometime in 1804 or 1805, can’t remember when specifically.
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None of which were against Napoleon.
Spain was invaded in 1805, right?
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None of which were against Napoleon.
True. I had thought you just asked broadly during that time.
Spain was invaded in 1805, right?
1808. Although again, it wasn’t so much “invaded” as it was the Peninsular War basically just spontaneously erupted, as the French Army was already in Spain and Portugal.
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