@hengst This house rules forum is full of ideas. To avoid scripted games you need a varaiety ways to win or lose a game in a reasonable amount of time ,eg 8 to 12 rounds.BBR and 3G40 are rulesets that encourage you to win by achieving various victory objectives.(not just victory cities)
3G40 changes turn order,merges Anzac into UKPacific,and sticks pretty close to oob rules.BBR is more complex than oob and is real popular.Both are designed to play in 1 day and to be able to declare a winner.
IL's Axis and Allies Global 1939 and 1942 files
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Well to reconstruct AAp40 with historical is a major undertaking…why?
Because it’s got too many sea zones and that makes it harder to playtest once the proper historical locations are found.
Thats why i kept the sea zones like they are in AA50 because i have much more experience playing that and my playtest teams prefer AA50. Its better to start at 1939 because information is much more available than say June 1940.
The other problem is the IPC distribution is not historical. Its in many wrong spaces and based on ‘other factors’ to script some idea of what is historical with little knowledge.
Then you have problem of the global 1940 setup, so really you need to have AAE40 and study the 6/40 situation and balance with a setup using both games. It is incorrect to balance one game and then another latter because that causes too many changes to make each one mate the other, id rather study what actually existed and reformulate that as one setup study.
Too me its better to start from scratch and redo the entire game by stripping it down and rebuilding it with only the best ideas. Thats what i plan on doing latter and making an upgraded version of my 1939 ideas.
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please explain what you mean by the 6/40 situation
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June 1940
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First off I must say I love what you’ve done with this thus far.
But I have a couple questions to clarify the rules and the map.1. Under the “Neutrals” you have the ending comment
“All they can do is defend home territories, with the exceptions of: Spain, Turkey, Brazil, and Argentina”
What exactly do you mean by that? Perhaps it’s me, but it wasn’t clear if you meant those neutrals to be factions of their own. And if so, when do they move and by whom?2. If the above assumption is correct, I’m guessing those four should have their own colors seperate from the “other” neutrals? Also assuming that the pro-axis, pro-allies, and neutrals should have their own colors too? If so, anyone have a good recommendation for the colors and how many “Extra” units each should have for gaming sake?
3. Again, if assumption for 1 is correct, Brazil should only have Brazil and Seazone 18 correct? Iraq, Persia, etc, blend right in without any new line/spacing after it.
4. Can any of the neutrals build ICs and build more units?
5. Finally, the map. Should the Vichy France system be reduced in size at all? It just seems to stand out dramatically larger than any other roundel.
Otherwise awesome job, screw AAE40, well except for the pieces, but I’ll be playing this game.
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1. Under the “Neutrals” you have the ending comment
“All they can do is defend home territories, with the exceptions of: Spain, Turkey, Brazil, and Argentina”
What exactly do you mean by that? Perhaps it’s me, but it wasn’t clear if you meant those neutrals to be factions of their own. And if so, when do they move and by whom?If they become an ally of either side ( meaning its attacked and becomes the new ally of the other side), they can move their forces outside of home territory to attack the enemy. So if the allies invade Spain and Spain is a German ally, the Germans can consider Spain as part of German controlled areas but using the spainish forces as they wish.
2. If the above assumption is correct, I’m guessing those four should have their own colors seperate from the “other” neutrals? Also assuming that the pro-axis, pro-allies, and neutrals should have their own colors too? If so, anyone have a good recommendation for the colors and how many “Extra” units each should have for gaming sake?
Yes you need white or cream pieces painted ( use british). If they go axis, then have some extra minor axis allies ( light Grey) for these. Quantity would be based on setup, so just use that to determine how many because they can never exceed their total force pool.
3. Again, if assumption for 1 is correct, Brazil should only have Brazil and Seazone 18 correct? Iraq, Persia, etc, blend right in without any new line/spacing after it.
That is the starting setup. as far as naval they can move those pieces wherever they like once Brazil is at war.
4. Can any of the neutrals build ICs and build more units?
They can build according to their IPC value, which could lead to a factory, but that is a waste. Also, consider the rules for Minor and Major factories and the IPC limitations.
5. Finally, the map. Should the Vichy France system be reduced in size at all? It just seems to stand out dramatically larger than any other roundel.
Yes i think so too, but 2 people pointed out that the icon is hard to see, so i made a white ghosted circle behind it. Perhaps that makes it look too large. I will look into reducing them.
Otherwise awesome job, screw AAE40, well except for the pieces, but I’ll be playing this game.
Well we got about 23 playtests behind this and i personally have been in about 15 of them. The game offers many more options that i realized at the time and made the game play more like i feel the considerations that the actual Generals faced and why they did what they did. You will rate the historical decisions more heavily in this game and probably go with them.
For example Germany will go for the oil and often neglect Moscow
USA will have a balanced game against japan and Germany
UK will go after Italy and try to invade the ‘soft underbelly’
Russia will build lots of tanks and more offensive
Japan will not invade Russia and rather so after Asia
Italy will stay in Africa and fight British, they are not “German can openers” -
Thanks for the reply!
When you mentioned:
“Yes you need white or cream pieces painted ( use british). If they go axis, then have some extra minor axis allies ( light Grey) for these. Quantity would be based on setup, so just use that to determine how many because they can never exceed their total force pool.”Do you mean short of building a factory to produce more units it’s a non-issue as they will never get more?
Thanks again!
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“Yes you need white or cream pieces painted ( use British). If they go axis, then have some extra minor axis allies ( light Grey) for these. Quantity would be based on setup, so just use that to determine how many because they can never exceed their total force pool.”
yes right. as far as neutrals they can build, only to replace loses and using their current IPC and force pool as the guideline. They can’t control new territories, but can fight alongside their allies in combat. In any case their ally gets the IPC they capture if they make conquests alone without aid ( as in Spain or Turkey).
Do you mean short of building a factory to produce more units it’s a non-issue as they will never get more?
Well Spain can waste 4 turns worth of income once at war saving for a minor factory…but as i said they can replace loses from their original force pool even if these are tanks or ships… In this case they don’t need a factory, but i guess they can buy one and it will only be used to place more Spanish units. So really their is no point to making a factory.
The allies can take it over and build a factory. The only time to can build a factory in a neutral is to conquer it. If the other side takes it back, the factory is destroyed.
So if Spain is a German ally, US can invade and build a factory, then Germany can retake it and destroy the factory. Germany cant then build a factory for German units… it can however save up and build a spainish factory for spainish units… but that would be a dumb move.
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@Imperious:
yes right. as far as neutrals they can build, only to replace loses and using their current IPC and force pool as the guideline. They can’t control new territories, but can fight alongside their allies in combat. In any case their ally gets the IPC they capture if they make conquests alone without aid ( as in Spain or Turkey).
Ok, so regardless of a factory or not, they can always rebuild to what they had originally. So if they started with 2 infantry and a tank, they can always build those assuming no more than the 2 infantry and a tank.
@Imperious:
Well Spain can waste 4 turns worth of income once at war saving for a minor factory…but as i said they can replace loses from their original force pool even if these are tanks or ships… In this case they don’t need a factory, but i guess they can buy one and it will only be used to place more Spanish units. So really their is no point to making a factory.
The allies can take it over and build a factory. The only time to can build a factory in a neutral is to conquer it. If the other side takes it back, the factory is destroyed.
So if Spain is a German ally, US can invade and build a factory, then Germany can retake it and destroy the factory. Germany cant then build a factory for German units… it can however save up and build a spainish factory for spainish units… but that would be a dumb move.
Sorry, just seems odd to me. Why can they build without a factory and invade but not claim for their own?
Also, when would they make a move? Would spain replace losses/move during any Axis Player’s turn?
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Ok, so regardless of a factory or not, they can always rebuild to what they had originally. So if they started with 2 infantry and a tank, they can always build those assuming no more than the 2 infantry and a tank.
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 03:18:46 pm
Well Spain can waste 4 turns worth of income once at war saving for a minor factory…but as i said they can replace loses from their original force pool even if these are tanks or ships… In this case they don’t need a factory, but i guess they can buy one and it will only be used to place more Spanish units. So really their is no point to making a factory.The allies can take it over and build a factory. The only time to can build a factory in a neutral is to conquer it. If the other side takes it back, the factory is destroyed.
So if Spain is a German ally, US can invade and build a factory, then Germany can retake it and destroy the factory. Germany cant then build a factory for German units… it can however save up and build a spainish factory for spainish units… but that would be a dumb move.
Sorry, just seems odd to me. Why can they build without a factory and invade but not claim for their own?
Neutrals can only replace their own starting forces by using their IPC to do this. If invaded they are under control of the other side and play on that side and in some cases these neutrals can move outside their borders ( Spain, Turkey, Brazil).
You can conquer a neutral by occupying it and then build a factory and place your units. Of course your limited by the rules regarding factory builds.
I don’t see how this is ‘odd’. The only idea that is not consistent is they can only replace their starting forces and in some cases by saving up, that can be a tank or a ship and it can be built w/o a factory. The idea is to avoid glitches where the controlling player not only has the benefit of these forces, but can attempt to slap a factory and build his own forces. I stop these cheesy tricks dead is their tracks because they are not realistic. Neutrals only fight for themselves and rarely send their army to fight on faraway campaigns. They don’t build your own units and do not give you income so you can get fat. The only way to take their value is by invading them and defeating their army… then you get the money and can do what you like, but you can’t have the cake and eat it too. Thats why the rules are the way they are.
Also, when would they make a move? Would spain replace losses/move during any Axis Player’s turn?
Well spain would be a German ally, Mongolia would be a Soviet ally. Basically you go by who is closer. In case of a tie the allies can decide this.
Example: Persia if invaded can be either uk or USSR.
Norway is UK
Saudi is UK
Mongolia is Soviets or japan
South America is USA
Iceland can be UK unless USA just occupies them
etc…
The allies can decide who controls them if the distance is the same, but obviously if Argentina was invaded by Germany, it would be an American ally
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Ok, it’s making more sense now, not quite sure what I was thinking earlier.
One last question. :)In your example about US invading Spain, but Germany freeing it and that Germany couldn’t build a factory there as it’s now Spain’s again. Would a factory give Spain any possible benefit or are the neutrals ALWAYS limited to their initial starting forces?
If so, I can see why you mean a factory would be dumb, I think on some level I was assuming a factory would allow them to exceed their starting forces.
Thanks again.
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In your example about US invading Spain, but Germany freeing it and that Germany couldn’t build a factory there as it’s now Spain’s again. Would a factory give Spain any possible benefit or are the neutrals ALWAYS limited to their initial starting forces?
Well as i said before they are always neutral, unless to conquer them by occupation, in which case you CAN build a factory and place your own units. Other than that if they are your allies, you dont collect the income and you cant do glitches where you build factory’s and place your units.
If so, I can see why you mean a factory would be dumb, I think on some level I was assuming a factory would allow them to exceed their starting forces.
Right. correct. no reason to buy a factory unless you conquer them
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IL you say you will need 2 1942 and a p40 would one of each plus E40 work too. Also what do you use for tech units and bloc houses.
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well 1 copy of AAe40 and AAp40 will work
or
1 AA42 and 1 AAp40, plus stukas from AAR and fighters from MB AA ( for Soviets)
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@Imperious:
well 1 copy of AAe40 and AAp40 will work
or
1 AA42 and 1 AAp40, plus stukas from AAR and fighters from MB AA ( for Soviets)
Those are the tactical bombers, right?
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yes.
So you need tactical bombers for Germany, Italy ans Russia, plus Mech for same.
You can use MB AA tanks for mech or table tactics, or paint some from AAP40 for them
Tactical bombers can come from MB AA fighters or bombers, or use stukas from AAR
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Another thing is won’t you need all minor allies a different colour so you know which forces that each nation can replace.
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Well not really. What you need is the total inventory of all 4 minor axis allies as an aggregate total for this purpose.
Remember, Germany can decide to take the IPC and buy and place its own pieces in her own factories. If Germany wants to place pieces in Romania, Finland, Bulgaria, and Hungary she can take the total IPC from these and place one unit per nation using these pieces until they are all replaced.
The second option is better and more flexible. Note that these minor axis nations are different rules than neutrals. These are minor players that get activated on turn 3, but play on Germany’s turn as their ‘little friends’
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I am not sure if I am looking at the newest map IL, but I have a major gripe.
How can the distance from Japan to the US be the same as the US to France. With a 6 foot map, and those spaces so big, I would have thought of all people you would have hated that idea. It just seems such a given. It was such a delight with I bought AAP40 and saw 5 spaces between Japan and US. (if you look at an actual round globe, and position it just right, you can barely see Japan on one side, and barely see the US on the other, and all you see is the ocean in between)
But to my horror, I realized if you leave Japan, and instead of going in a straight line, which is the shortest route to anywhere, but instead travel up north/east, to Alaska, then back down south/east, the US is only 4 spaces away. And with thier Naval base rule, in one turn you are 1 space away from the US. That is crazy.
Your thoughts.
Eddie
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How can the distance from Japan to the US be the same as the US to France. With a 6 foot map, and those spaces so big, I would have thought of all people you would have hated that idea. It just seems such a given. It was such a delight with I bought AAP40 and saw 5 spaces between Japan and US. (if you look at an actual round globe, and position it just right, you can barely see Japan on one side, and barely see the US on the other, and all you see is the ocean in between)
But to my horror, I realized if you leave Japan, and instead of going in a straight line, which is the shortest route to anywhere, but instead travel up north/east, to Alaska, then back down south/east, the US is only 4 spaces away. And with thier Naval base rule, in one turn you are 1 space away from the US. That is crazy.
Sea zones based on AA50 map, Plus i made 2 changes. Also, a ship can travel in 4-6 months nearly around the world twice, so making more sea zones and not improving naval movement causes imbalance with the way Naval is configured in this game.
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Then USA should only be 2 spaces away from France
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