New theory for Allied KGF. A possible balancer maybe? Need Logistical help.

[Gargantua]

Hmm…

Well personally, I always prefer to see Jap units going into Africa, for two reasons.

1. The money ends up the farthest from any Allied Capitals.
2. Jap units end up fighting American ones, instead of Russian.

As for your points Big Dog, all valid.  So we can rack our brains a bit…

****** American Pacific Contigent *****
How to dish out the pain without paying the dollars you say?  Movement maximization.

What do I mean you ask?  Well fgt’s and bombers in WUS can make it to Sz12 or better in one move. And also deep into the pacific (Actually quite deep, because you can land on a newly built acc in Sz52 aswell at any given time)  So your air builds you make there and they act as a temp deterrent/potential good move maker.  With a micro investment over several turns sub or two,  or dst and trn combo along side exsisting dst and acc, in Sz52, you can’t be considered idle.  The most important unit of course being the transport. (Because it’s taking territories that matters at the end of the day)

Make sure our objectives are clear too.

1. Hit valid Jap targets on good terms
2. Maintain ATLEAST SOL/MID/WAK/HAW NO

Another thought,  if you’ve got the idle navy there,  Say you plunk a T1 US transport in Sz52. you could pluck units from MID, HAW etc, and bring em to the mainlaind.  Eventually those units will see action with the rest of your forces. T4 say.  Providing the necessary edge to fight on both fronts perhaps.  Or atleast acting as the fodder you can use to take islands back. SAO you are not buying inf to go east into the pac.

[axis_roll]

A key to this idea is an agressive Russia.

Keep Germany from advancing as much as possible.
The best way to do this?

Allied ftrs!

In 1941, unlike any previous version (or even 1942), Russia goes AFTER Germany, instead of before.
What used to be the best way to control the japanese in previous versions (USA and/or russia advances, UK covers with units and/or ftrs) is now the best way to control Germany in 1941.

Forgo the $5 Russia NO, that’s a pittance compared to the position Russia can maintain against Germany.  Advance on Germany (or hold your key position) with allied ftrs.  This works well in conjunction with the massive NWE dump idea since the USA ftrs are in range of the NWE dump.

[Gargantua]

*** African Solutions ***

In revised, I used a factory in Brazil strat, with damn near 98% success ratio as the allies.  Against it didn’t matter who.  It was all about economic control.

I think this we still ought to consider this option.

Not sure how that fits into the big scheme of things in terms of pricing, but having the ability to dump 2 units a turn into mainland africa,  along with a solid Lockdown in ALG is a big deal.

It takes F-all to get a BRA ind going, 15 for the fac, 7 for 1 transport, then inf from there on out.   So 22 to Setup.

Good thing about this plan, is you can do it, or not do it.  Depending on Axis position,  Say G1 EGY gets stomped, consider it a G1 option.  Say EGY fails, maybe hold off till you think the japs are actually going to land.

Some people prefer just buying 3 transports, and shucking North to South to east,  I prefer the complex.

[Gargantua]

Axis roll, I was typing above post just, but you beat me to it!

EXCELLENT suggestion with the fgt support.

Where would we localize the fgts in Russia? So they are actually effective? No sense putting them in Russia if they aren’t staving off an Axis offensive?  KAR I suppose?  EPL if you have an agressive Russia?

And what does it take to make Russia Agressive?  A solid 6 armor build R1?  R2 all Armor again?  That would make hell for the germans early… We’ve got to figure out how to make this work cohesively together.  Get a script going for purchases.  List Objectives for each country to aim for.  What places to hold etc.  How to prep for coming Japs whilst pulling out Italian and German teeth as quickly as possible.

[a44bigdog]

I think keeping the US capitol ships in SZ12 may be better with US transports operating out of SZ12 and SZ7 with the UK in SZ7. Yes the UK would have to move down to SZ7 after taking Scandinavia but that should not be a problem. By doing this the US maintains the threat of an invasion on Italy and if forces are needed in Africa the US can just not shuck from Algeria to NW. Europe.

[SilverAngelSurfer]

What experience do you guys have with reversing the US/UK targets?  As in UK going after Africa and the US going after Norway in order to build an IC there.

[axis_roll]

@Gargantua:

EXCELLENT suggestion with the fgt support.

Where would we localize the fgts in Russia? So they are actually effective? No sense putting them in Russia if they aren’t staving off an Axis offensive?  KAR I suppose?   EPL if you have an agressive Russia?

If Russia can stay in Karelia G2, then I would not get all tanks R1.  4 inf, 2 art 2 tanks is good (art in Karelia)

@Gargantua:

And what does it take to make Russia Agressive?  A solid 6 armor build R1?  R2 all Armor again?  That would make hell for the germans early… We’ve got to figure out how to make this work cohesively together.  Get a script going for purchases.  List Objectives for each country to aim for.  What places to hold etc.  How to prep for coming Japs whilst pulling out Italian and German teeth as quickly as possible.

Hard to make such generalities because Germany can push hard into BST G1 or ukraine G1.  Also, what did Germany buy?  If G1 buy is agressive, a move into BST or EPL might be a trap.  It’s all a fine balance.

I will say I prefer tanks early with Russia because of their range.

[Gargantua]

SAS I haven’t had any experience with that since ORIGINAL axis and allies… worth a thought…

Let me see what battle plans I can come up with in the next day or so.

[ozimek1]

In this particular strategy I’m not completely sold on the idea of sending Allied fighters to Russia.

We really need all the Allied fighters (esp. US I guess) we can muster to hold NWE after the landing. I’m not sure exposing them to danger in Russia can potentially risk the entire plan. Also stationing them in Russia will most likely make Germany less aggressive during Barbarossa, which is counter productive for the overall Allied game plan. I mean, the more German units that are stuck deep in the Russian steppes, the weaker the counter attack on NWE will be.

This might sound crazy, and I haven’t really thought it throgh, but here goes:
Assuming the western Allies are going aggressively for an early NWE landing, how about building two Russian bombers on turn one and start a strategic bombing campaign on Germany? Would the front crumble completely too fast? Note that the bombers can also be used for swapping territories when (not if) the front gets too close to Moscow. Again the key objective is to get an allied foothold in the western continental europe (NWR or France that is). I’m thinking bombers are probably the best way the Russians can support this plan. At least they are more flexible and less all-in than a reverse PQ17 operation :) Russian transports going out from Karelia to backstab the Germans, heh :roll:

[axis_roll]

@ozimek1:

In this particular strategy I’m not completely sold on the idea of sending Allied fighters to Russia.

We really need all the Allied fighters (esp. US I guess) we can muster to hold NWE after the landing. I’m not sure exposing them to danger in Russia can potentially risk the entire plan. Also stationing them in Russia will most likely make Germany less aggressive during Barbarossa, which is counter productive for the overall Allied game plan. I mean, the more German units that are stuck deep in the Russian steppes, the weaker the counter attack on NWE will be.

you’re implying a sucker move… bring in the Germans too far to get back to NWE.
I contend that would allow Germany too much money to fight with.
also, Germany may not fall full force into that trap

Recall the ftrs need to be in range of the key NWE.  Only Caucasus based ftrs can not reach there.

@ozimek1:

This might sound crazy, and I haven’t really thought it throgh, but here goes:

yep, that’s crazy.

@ozimek1:

Assuming the western Allies are going aggressively for an early NWE landing, how about building two Russian bombers on turn one and start a strategic bombing campaign on Germany?

I would never risk Russian bombers on SBRs.

@ozimek1:

Would the front crumble completely too fast?

most likely.  2 bombers = 8 inf.
Lots of units to be short against Germany

[the spaceman]

Hi all,

I have been thinking similar thoughts about UK being agressive and disrupting the flow of troops to the Eastern front. I think Northern Europe is an excellent target for a raid or even total occupation by a large force. It forces Germany to react by attacking West instead of Eastwards.

I think this strategy would work well in conjunction with other Allied moves. Specifically mopping up scandinavia and aggressive US moves in Africa.

I think the combination of distracting Germany and strangling Italy will allow a better Russian defence in the East.

[Funcioneta]

I faced this strat at daak. I was axis and the bid was -11 (there they bid for axis, go figure), I had some bad rolls and some horrible moves and still I won. The strat has 2 problems:

• Polar Express can create havoc against this. First with small raids and later with huge forces (and still continue the advance against USSR). Simultaneously, the japs can take Africa pretty easy, specially if the italian navy escapes to Indian Ocean (good old trick from Revised)

• It’s awfully and utterly boring fighting against this and I guess that it’s even more boring playing with this as allies

Said that, this strat can catch some uncared axis player if done right, specially if USSR is very agressive. If there is a strat with some chances of allies winning without bid, this is the only strat. Gamey and boring, but has a moderate chance of winning. I’m glad I decided not playing 1941 scenario after that last game

[Zhukov44]

Honestly Func, you haven’t tried to play KGF if you think its boring.  It’s true it would be boring if the Allied opponent simply regurgitated Revised strategies, but that’s not how you play KGF in 41–KGF in 41 requires aggression and timing and closely coordinated attacking.

It’s true that KGF is harder for the Axis to play against, because Axis has to think hard to anticipate the 1-2-3 attacks and coordinated movements.  But I don’t mind the challenge…it’s more interesting to fight a KGF then to win an inevitable economic victory or quickly stomp Russia if the Allies divide their focus.

What I can say with certainty is its lots of fun to be Allies when executing a KGF strategy, especially the sort of aggressive KGF strategy that Gargantua is talking about above.   It’s more exciting to be Allies in AA50 then in any previous version of AA, partially due to the challenge involved, and partially due to KGF being much more exciting and diverse with the inclusion of Italy.