Of course it can. It makes no difference that originally it was a neutral territory. Its current status is a territory of the United States and therefore, with an IPC value of two,it can be a location where a minor industrial complex can be placed.
Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact
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Here is a 1940 war poster when Germany and Russia were still working together:
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I was thinking, in 1940, The Soviet union and Nazis Germany were technically neutral to each other. It gave the Russian half of Eastern Europe while Germany got the other half and Finland.
Not quite so actually, the pact did NOT give Finland to Germany, it was among those countries that were supposed to fall under Soviet reign. However, the Soviet Union failed to conquer the country (the Winter War was fought between the two parties in late 1939-early 1940) and Finland was forced to cede the eastern parts of the country in the peace settlement. Unlike e.g. Norway, the country wasn’t occupied by Germany. Finland was drawn into an another war against the Soviet Union once Germany launched Barbarossa. The Finns fought alongside Germany hoping to retain the land it had lost in 1940.
IMO this is the reason Finland should(and probably will?) start the game as a pro-axis neutral, since it wasn’t officially allied with Germany in 1940. -
I too think Finland could start as a Pro axis neutral. I know that Russia can’t attack a Euro axis power until rd #4, unless provoked. Will Russia be able to invade pro axis /pro allied neutrals from the beginning. Finland could be 2 tt, or Germany could simply miss moving in. Will Russia have the opportunity to invade if Germany doesn’t. There will probably be other pro something neutrals in eastern Europe with in range of Russia as well. So will Russia be able to take them? Germany goes before them, so it would most likely gobble them up first, but it doesn’t have to.
Edit, had some thoughts about US-Brazil (pro allied neutral). Talked myself out of it, as US shouldn’t be able to get control of Brazil (or move units in) until after US is at war. Brazil didn’t give them access until 1942.
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I believe that Larry has stated that the game starts with Finland already belonging to Germany, for simplicity’s sake. Don’t have time to go hunting for the quote today, but I think it’s on his site somewhere.
Honour and fame to the dedicated reader who digs through the archives and substantiates this claim!
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But my point is what does the Soviet union do in the meanwhile. Can it attack anyone, and can Germany not go to war with the Soviet Union? This is what i was aiming at.
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But my point is what does the Soviet union do in the meanwhile. Can it attack anyone, and can Germany not go to war with the Soviet Union? This is what i was aiming at.
After 4 rounds Russia is at war arent they?
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But my point is what does the Soviet union do in the meanwhile. Can it attack anyone, and can Germany not go to war with the Soviet Union? This is what i was aiming at.
Build up it’s defenses for the inevitalbe German onslaught.
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Will USSR HAVE to declare war on rd 4? Or can they continue to be neutral if Germany is?
And do they have thier own conditions for victory?
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Will USSR HAVE to declare war on rd 4? Or can they continue to be neutral if Germany is?
And do they have thier own conditions for victory?
Page 3 of the fact sheet, reply #43 states that Russia cannot attack until its turn four,it could only attack a Euro Axis if it was attacked first before turn 4.
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@Krupp:
Will USSR HAVE to declare war on rd 4? Or can they continue to be neutral if Germany is?
And do they have thier own conditions for victory?
Page 3 of the fact sheet, reply #43 states that Russia cannot attack until its turn four,it could only attack a Euro Axis if it was attacked first before turn 4.
I guess that doesn’t answer the question.
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@Brain:
@Krupp:
Will USSR HAVE to declare war on rd 4? Or can they continue to be neutral if Germany is?
And do they have thier own conditions for victory?
Page 3 of the fact sheet, reply #43 states that Russia cannot attack until its turn four,it could only attack a Euro Axis if it was attacked first before turn 4.
I guess that doesn’t answer the question.
It would imply that Russia doesn’t have to, at least the way it is currently stated. However, considering that would leave an entire Nation with essentially nothing to do, I doubt that will happen; whether it is a specific game mechanic or just the player’s choice…
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Most of the players will be engaging in Sitzkreig. While Germany has its BLitzkrieg. The big guys (USA, Russia) Will be sitting around for a couple of turns while the Axis Picks one front to wage war in.
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The USSR will probably be busily gobbling the neutral countries of the Baltic states, just like they actually did in 1940. There’ll be lots for them to do there, and in the Middle East, while gearing up to defend against Germany.
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The USSR will probably be busily gobbling up neutral countries in the Balkans, just like they actually did in 1940. There’ll be lots for them to do there, and in the Middle East, while gearing up to defend against Germany.
So there are going to be some added neutral territories between Russia and Germany that they can grab before the ultimate confrontation?
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@Brain:
The USSR will probably be busily gobbling up neutral countries in the Balkans, just like they actually did in 1940. There’ll be lots for them to do there, and in the Middle East, while gearing up to defend against Germany.
So there are going to be some added neutral territories between Russia and Germany that they can grab before the ultimate confrontation?
So is this insinuating that powers that are not yet at war (neutral, but their alliance has already been determined like US/Russia) will be able to enter pro to their side neutrals, and bring them on board before they them selves are on board? I though this might be the case as well, but after thinking about it now it sounds unlikely. IDK maybe Russia will have this special ability. Would this mean that US would be able to enter Brazil (if it starts off pro ally). Brazil should start off pro allied neutral, it didn’t enter the war until Jan 1942, after the US did. In Pac 40 the US wasn’t allowed to go into any tt that wasn’t US owned, I would think they would keep it the same way. That being said there was no pro something neutrals in Pac.
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The US is a special case, in that it’s neutral and not allowed to go to war. The UK, ANZAC and Japan are neutral and allowed to go to war. If every nation that was neutral couldn’t go to war then WW2 couldn’t have happened… wouldn’t make such a great WW2 game, really.
But yeah, the USSR in 1940 was eating up the ‘buffer zone’ between itself and Germany (this is a part of the reason that Germany struck as soon as it did against the USSR). Check it:
“July 23, 1940 - Soviets take Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.”
A communist movement was also being supported by the USSR in Yugoslavia, which prompted a German invasion there a year later.
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It will be interesting to see how this issue gets handled or not handled in the new game.
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The rule is the USSR can’t make a combat move against an axis power unless attacked, or its turn 4.
Finland, Romania, Hungary, Iran, and Bulgaria are Axis Neutrals
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The rule is the USSR can’t make a combat move against an axis power unless attacked, or its turn 4.
Finland, Romania, Hungary, Iran, and Bulgaria are Axis Neutrals
Right, since ‘Pro-Axis Neutral’ doesn’t have the same game status as ‘Axis Power’, the former should be vulnerable to attacks from the east. It was pressure on Romania by the Soviets to give up the territory won by them in WWI that pushed them firmly into the Axis camp. This is the kind of military pressure that I assume the USSR player will also be able to exert in the new game, pre-Barbarossa.
I still think I remember Larry saying somewhere that Finland would already be a German territory at the beginning of the game, though… to represent the end of hostilities after the Winter War, so they couldn’t attack / be attacked until either Germany or the USSR threw it all in and entered into total war with each other.
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The pro neutrals will be interesting for sure. I think that rule may allow Russia to enter pro allied neutrals (possibly pro axis as well), but it may be a special ability of Russia (not the US). Its true Russia was very aggressive, and consider part of the axis at the time (the unknown). The Baltic states (as pointed out by Make_It_Round) were invaded by Russia, a few days after the Germans entered Paris (which would be Russia’s first turn). Germany could also be with in range as well depending on how Poland is carved up, or transports in the Baltic, plus it goes before Russia. One could think that if Baltic States is a Pro allied neutral, then Russia could take it over (w/o penalty), but if Germany invades a pro allied neutral (Baltic States) it could cause a ripple effect, and allow Russia to go to war early (before rd #4). Other wise Baltic states would have to be in Russian control at game start, to keep Germany out. Yugoslavia throws a wench into that theory though, because most think it will be a pro allied neutral, and axis invading it shouldn’t allow Russia to declare war early. Then I thought the game set up could keep Germany out of Baltic States rd #1. Germany will control W Poland (containing E Prussia and boarders the Baltic States), but simply won’t have the forces to invade, but you could still have Germany invading by sea. The Baltic will be split now, and you could have a Russia dd in the sz next to Baltic states, but that won’t stop German transports from coming in as they should be able to ignore neutral Russian ships. So I still have questions about pro axis/pro allied neutrals, and how they work w/powers at war vs powers that are not at war yet.
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