Cool idea. but that really depends on Turkeys IPC value
@WILD:
With US and Russia not able to attack until rd #4 (unless provoked) the Euro axis only have two enemies. The first one (France) should fall rd #1 for the most part. That leaves UK on an island by itself for the next 3 rds (how it was in the war). I could see many of the UK Euro possessions being taken, including a possible Sea Lion. Why wouldn’t the axis try to take its enemies down one at a time early on when the are isolated. Having said that, Germany better be ready for Russia by land, and US by sea, because they will be coming hard. Even if Germany takes England will they have enough forces to keep it, and push into Russia?
So I don’t think that if London is lost by rd #4-5, that its game over. It will also be interesting to see if a J1 attack is as good a play in global, as it might put an end to any Sea Lion attempt, or keeping your enemies isolated early on.
True. It might turn out to be like the scenario in Pacific 40: the game only gets interesting once India falls (there’s never any question of if it will fall; it surely will if the Axis want it).
On the other hand, Larry has stated that the game starts post-Dunkirk, so there’ll probably be a stack of 10 infantry or so to represent the 300,000 men that were successfully evacuated from France, as well as 6 or 7 fighters to represent the air squadrons that Churchill held back for the Battle of Britain. It’ll be well-defended, and will probably only provide a pyrrhic victory–or a complete rout–for Germany (if the playtesters have done their jobs well).
I’m also interested in the apparent conflict of interest that seems to be shaping up between the Axis powers in Global 40: Japan presumably can’t wait to nail the Allies, and will want to strike on J1, but Germany will probably need until G3 to contain the UK and France before the US gets involved. There’ll be some <ahem>heated negotiations, I’m sure, between the Axis players as to when it’s in their mutual interest to take the plunge into total war (default compromise = G2 attack?). To make matters even more interesting, the Soviet Union will be sitting there like a ticking time bomb, getting bigger and meaner with each passing round… brilliant!
To bring it back on topic, though, I suppose we should discuss the role of the Italians in all of this. They’ll have the biggest Axis navy on the board, so if Sea Lion’s going to work G2 or G3, they’ll need the Italians to help out with that, providing cover for their fleet of transports and giving the option of a possible follow-up attack on London. But this will mean abandoning the Italian national objectives in the Med, and more naval purchases = fewer land purchases to help out with the USSR. Plus! The French navy will still be in existence (there’s no Vichy rule to switch them into Axis units; they’ll stay Allied), as will many elements of the British navy: it’ll probably take a few turns to fight through those units, and then another turn to secure Gibraltar (it now needs to be taken over to leave/enter the Med). Therefore, I think it’ll be I3 or I4 before the Italians will be able to get anywhere near the UK; by which time the US will have entered the war, and will presumably be flying tons of fighters and bombers across the Atlantic to help stabilize the situation. By this time, the Brits will be running wild in Africa and the Middle East, and the growing threat of the USSR will not have been adequately checked. To sum up: a dedicated Sea Lion strategy against competent Allied players sounds (in theory, at least) like a complete disaster for the Axis in this game.
Which means: Italy will need to stay focussed on Africa and the Middle East (for lack of a better strategic target), and Germany will have nothing better to do than help Italy get stronger while building up to take out the USSR.
So: How will Rommel get to Africa?</ahem>
@WILD:
With US and Russia not able to attack until rd #4 (unless provoked) the Euro axis only have two enemies. The first one (France) should fall rd #1 for the most part. That leaves UK on an island by itself for the next 3 rds (how it was in the war). I could see many of the UK Euro possessions being taken, including a possible Sea Lion. Why wouldn’t the axis try to take its enemies down one at a time early on when the are isolated. Having said that, Germany better be ready for Russia by land, and US by sea, because they will be coming hard. Even if Germany takes England will they have enough forces to keep it, and push into Russia?
So I don’t think that if London is lost by rd #4-5, that its game over. It will also be interesting to see if a J1 attack is as good a play in global, as it might put an end to any Sea Lion attempt, or keeping your enemies isolated early on.
True. It might turn out to be like the scenario in Pacific 40: the game only gets interesting once India falls (there’s never any question of if it will fall; it surely will if the Axis want it).
On the other hand, Larry has stated that the game starts post-Dunkirk, so there’ll probably be a stack of 10 infantry or so to represent the 300,000 men that were successfully evacuated from France, as well as 6 or 7 fighters to represent the air squadrons that Churchill held back for the Battle of Britain. It’ll be well-defended, and will probably only provide a pyrrhic victory–or a complete rout–for Germany (if the playtesters have done their jobs well).
I’m also interested in the apparent conflict of interest that seems to be shaping up between the Axis powers in Global 40: Japan presumably can’t wait to nail the Allies, and will want to strike on J1, but Germany will probably need until G3 to contain the UK and France before the US gets involved. There’ll be some <ahem>heated negotiations, I’m sure, between the Axis players as to when it’s in their mutual interest to take the plunge into total war (default compromise = G2 attack?). To make matters even more interesting, the Soviet Union will be sitting there like a ticking time bomb, getting bigger and meaner with each passing round… brilliant!
To bring it back on topic, though, I suppose we should discuss the role of the Italians in all of this. They’ll have the biggest Axis navy on the board, so if Sea Lion’s going to work G2 or G3, they’ll need the Italians to help out with that, providing cover for their fleet of transports and giving the option of a possible follow-up attack on London. But this will mean abandoning the Italian national objectives in the Med, and more naval purchases = fewer land purchases to help out with the USSR. Plus! The French navy will still be in existence (there’s no Vichy rule to switch them into Axis units; they’ll stay Allied), as will many elements of the British navy: it’ll probably take a few turns to fight through those units, and then another turn to secure Gibraltar (it now needs to be taken over to leave/enter the Med). Therefore, I think it’ll be I3 or I4 before the Italians will be able to get anywhere near the UK; by which time the US will have entered the war, and will presumably be flying tons of fighters and bombers across the Atlantic to help stabilize the situation. By this time, the Brits will be running wild in Africa and the Middle East, and the growing threat of the USSR will not have been adequately checked. To sum up: a dedicated Sea Lion strategy against competent Allied players sounds (in theory, at least) like a complete disaster for the Axis in this game.
Which means: Italy will need to stay focussed on Africa and the Middle East (for lack of a better strategic target), and Germany will have nothing better to do than help Italy get stronger while building up to take out the USSR.
So: How will Rommel get to Africa?</ahem>
Italy is going to have more than 2 BB’s, 3CV’s, 3DD’s, 3 transports, 2 subs and 3 cruisers?
Thats a sweet post right there Round. This is going to be one intense game for the German player no doubt. :-o :-) :-D
Decisions, decisions, decisions. Whats cool is each game will be different. Things that work in one game may not work the next time. Which round axis attack will play out differently. Each game will be like an “alternate universe” to steel a phrase from the TV show Fringe.
As far as the game goes it really doesn’t matter if their are Italian or German units in Africa, but it just won’t feel right. :-(
Depending on how wide the Mediteranean ends up being, perhaps if a couple German units hitch a ride on an Italian transport the new airbase paratrooper rule will allow Germany to get more units over there more quickly?
@SAS:
Depending on how wide the Mediteranean ends up being, perhaps if a couple German units hitch a ride on an Italian transport the new airbase paratrooper rule will allow Germany to get more units over there more quickly?
Excellent point. A very creative solution to the problem! However, weapons development will only ever be an optional rule, and even then only for the Global 40 game. So it won’t help us in Europe 40.
And even if the optional R&D rule is agreed upon by all players in a hypothetical Global 40 game, the Germans will only have 17% chance to get any weapons development (if buying 1 research die); multiplied by another 1/6 chance of rolling the paratroopers tech. That means there’s only a 3% chance of that happening per turn without a bigger ‘buy-in’ of dice (barring more complicated mathematics–there’s much more that could be factored these calculations, obviously–such as the larger chance of getting paratroopers once some of the other techs are bought up). Bottom line: those aren’t very good odds of success for an operational plan to rest on.
Also, as a matter of the fine print of the rules, paratrooper attacks (if you do happen to finally succeed in getting the tech) will need to be accompanied by an attack by some of your other (non-paratrooper) land forces. This means that the problem of getting regular old transports into the Med will persist for the Germans, unless–as you correctly point out–they can hitch a ride with the Italians. That, however, is a long, inefficient, and really dangerous ride to hitch: the German troops will need to sit in the Med for an entire turn in a possibly undefended transport, unable to disembark, getting shot at by British, Russian, American, French, and possibly even ANZAC forces. In short: paratroopers won’t be able to help Rommel get his Afrikakorps where they need to go, and the Italians (assuming the Italian player is even willing to cooperate in transporting your troops in the first place!) won’t be able to competently assist with this either.
So: IF you’re playing Global and IF you own an air base on the Med and IF the board is designed so that there are 2 sea zones or less running from south to north between Italy and North Africa and IF you get lucky in R&D and roll a tech and IF you get even luckier by rolling paratroopers for that tech and IF the Italians agree to transport your troops and IF those Italian transports aren’t destroyed by the Allies in the turn you’re stuck in the Med and IF your amphibious assault supported by paratroopers succeeds…
THEN the Germans will have a (small) foothold in Africa, with an incredibly small chance of ever being successfully re-supplied.
The puzzle remains unsolved! How will Rommel get to Africa??
Well, at least in E40, we will have a LOT more options to choose from; I’m hoping that there won’t be some scripted “J1 Tsunami” strategy that is near impossible for the Allies to overcome. A strategy that doesn’t even develop until US war dec on Round 4 could have thousands of potential facets to it. Hopefully this will be the best AA game yet!
Hopefully it will actually be playtested!...including crazy strategys like G1 “Sealion” and G1 invasion of Russia that could break the game. Unlike Pac40 where Japan has more land forces in China than China has by the end of J1! and the UK fleet is both week and pathetic inviting Japanese invasion of India by sea on J3?..J2 if they wanted it bad enough…sad sad sad…
How long do the playtesters have with the game? These problems sound like they can get fixed early and easily. We havent even SEEN the board and we have figured stuff out.
How long do the playtesters have with the game? These problems sound like they can get fixed early and easily. We havent even SEEN the board and we have figured stuff out.
Apparently it is done being play tested as they have announced a release date.
@WILD:
With US and Russia not able to attack until rd #4 (unless provoked) the Euro axis only have two enemies. The first one (France) should fall rd #1 for the most part. That leaves UK on an island by itself for the next 3 rds (how it was in the war). I could see many of the UK Euro possessions being taken, including a possible Sea Lion. Why wouldn’t the axis try to take its enemies down one at a time early on when the are isolated. Having said that, Germany better be ready for Russia by land, and US by sea, because they will be coming hard. Even if Germany takes England will they have enough forces to keep it, and push into Russia?
So I don’t think that if London is lost by rd #4-5, that its game over. It will also be interesting to see if a J1 attack is as good a play in global, as it might put an end to any Sea Lion attempt, or keeping your enemies isolated early on.
True. It might turn out to be like the scenario in Pacific 40: the game only gets interesting once India falls (there’s never any question of if it will fall; it surely will if the Axis want it).
On the other hand, Larry has stated that the game starts post-Dunkirk, so there’ll probably be a stack of 10 infantry or so to represent the 300,000 men that were successfully evacuated from France, as well as 6 or 7 fighters to represent the air squadrons that Churchill held back for the Battle of Britain. It’ll be well-defended, and will probably only provide a pyrrhic victory–or a complete rout–for Germany (if the playtesters have done their jobs well).
I’m also interested in the apparent conflict of interest that seems to be shaping up between the Axis powers in Global 40: Japan presumably can’t wait to nail the Allies, and will want to strike on J1, but Germany will probably need until G3 to contain the UK and France before the US gets involved. There’ll be some <ahem>heated negotiations, I’m sure, between the Axis players as to when it’s in their mutual interest to take the plunge into total war (default compromise = G2 attack?). To make matters even more interesting, the Soviet Union will be sitting there like a ticking time bomb, getting bigger and meaner with each passing round… brilliant!
To bring it back on topic, though, I suppose we should discuss the role of the Italians in all of this. They’ll have the biggest Axis navy on the board, so if Sea Lion’s going to work G2 or G3, they’ll need the Italians to help out with that, providing cover for their fleet of transports and giving the option of a possible follow-up attack on London. But this will mean abandoning the Italian national objectives in the Med, and more naval purchases = fewer land purchases to help out with the USSR. Plus! The French navy will still be in existence (there’s no Vichy rule to switch them into Axis units; they’ll stay Allied), as will many elements of the British navy: it’ll probably take a few turns to fight through those units, and then another turn to secure Gibraltar (it now needs to be taken over to leave/enter the Med). Therefore, I think it’ll be I3 or I4 before the Italians will be able to get anywhere near the UK; by which time the US will have entered the war, and will presumably be flying tons of fighters and bombers across the Atlantic to help stabilize the situation. By this time, the Brits will be running wild in Africa and the Middle East, and the growing threat of the USSR will not have been adequately checked. To sum up: a dedicated Sea Lion strategy against competent Allied players sounds (in theory, at least) like a complete disaster for the Axis in this game.
Which means: Italy will need to stay focussed on Africa and the Middle East (for lack of a better strategic target), and Germany will have nothing better to do than help Italy get stronger while building up to take out the USSR.
So: How will Rommel get to Africa?</ahem>
Heh, I think this post more than anything will make germany and/or japan attack russia G1 or at latest G2 now. Path of least resistance. I only wonder if the Soviets have a war economy that turns on like the US does too though.
From what I remember there are 6 tt between Berlin & Moscow. The Germans will start in Poland, so that leaves 5. Italy may be able to leap in and clear the way for Germany for one tt (or so), so now we’re at 4 tt/rounds to be at Moscow door step. The earliest Germany could attack Russia’s capital is rd #5, and that’s only if Russia doesn’t make any counter moves to set you back. It will be a much longer journey for Japan (as it always is) so if you wait for Japan to be ready to also sack Moscow then add at least 2 rounds. Russia will make def withdraws saving much of its strength for the end, and building units for 4-5 rounds. If you let the UK off the hook, and it can build its forces, by time you get to Moscow you will find British ground forces (via Archangel/India) there along with 1/2 the RAF. It will be able to do this because the US will take over England’s defenses by this time. If Japan make a determined run at Russia, they will also be in trouble. Even if they manage to take down China along the way, India will be saved, and the US will also be bearing down on them. Japan has too many things on it plate to go after Russia with any force. It may be able to tie up Russians at the boarder, but that’s about it.
Well hopefully Japan can keep US from doing as it wants in Europe.
