i know there are good players that read this site. i also know there are creative minds on how to correct game problems.
i am looking for a way to balance a j1dow with later dows. any feedback on my ideas or ideas of your own would be appreciated.
my order of importance for change is as follows
strategically make j1dow = j2 or later dow
simple to understand
minimal change to game mechanics
historical reality takes a back seat to strategy, but if historical thats a bonus
give japan more ground forces on the mainland is the key to balancing the game
or extra transport at first round
@Frontovik:
give japan more ground forces on the mainland is the key to balancing the game
or extra transport at first round
Frontovik LMAO, I don’t think that’s exactly what allweneedislove had in mind. Of coarse it might not be as funny an option in the global game.
@Frontovik:
give japan more ground forces on the mainland is the key to balancing the game
or extra transport at first round
hi front thanks for the input. however, i am looking at how to balance a j1 dow to a j2 dow. your suggestion does not do it.
it sounds like you think allies are favoured and are trying to balance the game. i am not so worried about balancing the game because a bid can be done for that.
@Frontovik:
give japan more ground forces on the mainland is the key to balancing the game
or extra transport at first roundhi front thanks for the input. however, i am looking at how to balance a j1 dow to a j2 dow. your suggestion does not do it.
it sounds like you think allies are favoured and are trying to balance the game. i am not so worried about balancing the game because a bid can be done for that.
Now I am confused, your first two options are just that a built in bid.
I know I mentioned what has become the third option (move UK navy), to aid in your quest. I will say most games I’ve played to this point have favored axis w/J1 attack. I have not played enough games yet at this point to see if anything needs to be done however. I am still playing OOB/Errata looking at other (legal) ways to hinder Japans J1 attack. I feel its more fun/challenging to over come the odds when some people are saying “the odds are stacked against you”.
This game is designed for house rules. Some houses will lean in one direction, and will need a fix, others won’t.
@Frontovik:
give japan more ground forces on the mainland is the key to balancing the game
or extra transport at first roundhi front thanks for the input. however, i am looking at how to balance a j1 dow to a j2 dow. your suggestion does not do it.
it sounds like you think allies are favoured and are trying to balance the game. i am not so worried about balancing the game because a bid can be done for that.
J3 is usefull for australia
2 is in my games the only alternative for J1
but i have to admit: i tried J1 without attack phillipines, and had some very good dice, so i almost won
but if would had a bit more 6’s than 1’s it was again total defeat
i just can’t get how people win so easily as japan
How about move the Japanese transport from SZ33 to SZ6. Makes Japan choose targets on a J1 attack, or set up for a J2 attack. Is that more of what you had in mind?
@WILD:
Now I am confused, your first two options are just that a built in bid.
I know I mentioned what has become the third option (move UK navy), to aid in your quest. I will say most games I’ve played to this point have favored axis w/J1 attack.
the first two options are not just a built in bid. the first two options are disincentives for a j1 dow. the additional ipcs are only added to the allies if it is a j1 dow. a bid could still be used to determine sides and balance the game.
balancing the game is easy, just use a bid. players have been using a bid for every version since original axis and allies.
balancing a j1dow with j2, j3, j4 dow is much more difficult.
IMO The game is balanced. J1, J2, and J3. I have won with Japan on all DOWs and beat other players on all DOWs. After UK and China falls there is only an 8 dollar difference between Japan and the Allies. Having 30 or so live games Im tending to think that the balance is good. The J1 attack is hard to beat, The US and ANZAC players from the start have to plan their game for when UK is gone.
One of my fav moves for US after a J1 DOW is
destroyer/trany to midway with 3 fig, 3 tac, 2 inf
rest of navy moves to Hiwaii
This does a couple things. If japan attacks the midway destroyer light (scramble airforce) if they go heavy (dont scramble) and counter with everything in Hiwaii, airforce from midway and what ever you built last turn. Most of the time they wont attack. so now your navy is ready to attack Japan and cant get attacked. Your free to move stuff down to help ANAZC or take forward islands. The destroyer “blocker” is a great move for US. Japan might try to set a “blocker” of their own…. if they do the blast it with your bombers the destroyer wont hit that often and every destoroyer you kill evens the economy.
I know there is lots of holes in any strat and will prolly get picked apart take it or leave it.
IMO The game is balanced. J1, J2, and J3. I have won with Japan on all DOWs and beat other players on all DOWs.
thanks for your input bube.
however, you winning all the time shows that you are better than your opponents. it does not show that the game is balanced as it is clearly not. but game balance can be shown in another thread.
this thread for players who have played enough to find out that a j1 dow > j2, j3, or j4 dow and the best way to balance the timing of the dow to add variability to the game.
How about move the Japanese transport from SZ33 to SZ6. Makes Japan choose targets on a J1 attack, or set up for a J2 attack. Is that more of what you had in mind?
Has anyone considered trying this? I don’t have any opponents available to test it right now…
…I’m in the same camp. I don’t think any changes are needed, and I think the J1 attack probably always was what the designers thought would be the best option for the Japanese.
thanks for the replies kaufschtick.
even if the designers thought that a j1 dow was best for the japanese it would be fun for us gamers to have a valid strategic option for when to have a dow.
…My bud Buckeyeboy on here and I have have both commented how historically accurate the J1 attack appears. The US transport getting zapped at Pearl kinda represents the situation after Pearl Harbor without actually having to recreate that disaterous chapter of the war for the US…
remember the game starts in 1940 japan launched their surprise attacks on the uk/usa on the 7th/8th of december 1941. this is about 3 weeks from 1942 almost 2 years after the game starts. for a more historical playout usa would need to take a turn and non-combat move more naval pieces to pearl harbour then japan declares war and takes down more navy in that battle.
all this said historical accuracy is not what the game should be about otherwise japan gets crushed every game, and there is no variability in playouts
How about move the Japanese transport from SZ33 to SZ6. Makes Japan choose targets on a J1 attack, or set up for a J2 attack. Is that more of what you had in mind?
thanks for the idea variable.
this is more what i had in mind. however, moving the transport from sz33 to sz6 does not hinder a j1 dow enough to make a j2 dow equivalent. the transport in sz6 can not reach the dutch territories but still can reach kwangtung, philippines, and french indo china on a j1 dow.
The solution is do what the play-testers should have done.
Come up with cash ipc amounts that will be paid out to the Allies in case of a J1 or J2 DOW, and test the game enough that you come up with numbers (for ipcs) that will make a J1, J2 or J3 DOW roughly equal in terms of effectiveness. Also figure out a fair distribution for the IPCs that doesn’t break the game.
I think you’ve already arrived at the solution Allweneedislove; it’s just a matter of play-testing to arrive at the appropriate ipc amounts to be paid out for each DOW.
I think simply not allowing Japan to build any factories should even things out since Japan is going to have to rely more on transports and sea routes than an armored push to India.
@The:
I think simply not allowing Japan to build any factories should even things out since Japan is going to have to rely more on transports and sea routes than an armored push to India.
i also enjoy the logistical problems of japan having to transport its units, while protecting the transports. however, not allowing j to build an ic does not effect the the strength of a j1 dow compared to a j2 dow.
The solution is do what the play-testers should have done.
Come up with cash ipc amounts that will be paid out to the Allies in case of a J1 or J2 DOW, and test the game enough that you come up with numbers (for ipcs) that will make a J1, J2 or J3 DOW roughly equal in terms of effectiveness. Also figure out a fair distribution for the IPCs that doesn’t break the game.
I think you’ve already arrived at the solution Allweneedislove; it’s just a matter of play-testing to arrive at the appropriate ipc amounts to be paid out for each DOW.
is there any difference between your idea and my idea number 2?
I’m playing bid.
I’m getting allies at $20 and still getting whooped.
I’m playing bid.
I’m getting allies at $20 and still getting whooped.
hey jim,
are you getting the 20ipc after a j1 attack or is this a bid at game start?
are you playing that you can place the 20ipc in units? if so are there any restrictions?
what we do right now is bid for sides and place units pregame. we have no restrictions on how many units can be placed in any one territory, except that the territory must already have a unit of the same power.
what i would like to do is keep bidding to determine sides, however we are having problems balancing a j1 to a j2 dow. i think my idea number 2 is best right now but am hoping for some critiquing or new ideas. right now our bids are between 17-11ipc. if we were to use my idea number 2 with x=5, i think the bid would drop to 6ipc or less
The US was gearing up for war and the UK was already at war with Germany (although it was the “Phoney War” that didn’t end until April/May). As such most resources were focused on Europe. But if Japan had attacked earlier, I think more resources would have been made available for the beleaguered Pacific theater.
I agree with allweneed that since it is rapidly becoming evident there is no balancing Allied strategy to answer a J1 attack (or J2 for that matter) his balancing proposals deserve consideration. I think though instead of giving a IPC bonuses, that fixed units be made available that were earmarked for Europe/Africa/Atlantic in the deployment phase. US should receive naval and air units, the UK naval and ground units while ANZAC should get a fighter and some infantry. For the China airlift, they should get a free artillery unit each turn the US deploys a bomber in Szechwan.
I don’t agree with withdrawing the UK naval force at Singapore back to India. This deployment is historically accurate.
