Does J1 Attack "Break" the games?

[kaufschtick]

@Open:

Mabey it all depends on who is playing as japan  :?

I have the sneaking feeling that in this game, Japan isn’t going to be able to do everything it wants to, all the time.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@kaufschtick:

@calvinhobbesliker:

With this strategy, what should the UK build? Infantry to delay or planes to escape death and fight on?

Also, for Britain, I would pull out of Singapore and move that whole force to Shan State. The British & ANZAC could take Siam turn 2, giving the ANZAC player a crucial 5 point bonus if they are able to move their infantry into Siam. The British are also in a position to attack French Indochina on B2 as well. At the very least, they are in a position to deny Burma to Japan on turn 2.
/b]

Can’t Japan hit that with 2 inf and 5-10 planes? Then all the infantry die and japan only loses a few planes.

[kaufschtick]

@calvinhobbesliker:

Can’t Japan hit that with 2 inf and 5-10 planes? Then all the infantry die and japan only loses a few planes.

Japan can do damn near anything it wants to in this game, and those troops can be whacked in Singapore just as easily as in Shan State; if that’s what the Japanese player wants to do.

My thinking on that particular move, and it really depends on the game situation, is that on J1, Japan may have taken the PI and possibly Java. If that is the case after J1, then one could deduce that the Japanese player may be contemplating trying to go for the other three DEI islands with it’s three transports on J2.

If Japan has decided on squashing the garrison in Singapore, moving the troops, or not moving them isn’t going to make much difference.  It’s possible, that by evacuating Singapore, that the Japanese may be satisfied with it’s occupation and not concern themselves with chasing down it’s retreating defenders right at that moment. Again, if the Japanese were targeting Singapore though, it really doesn’t make much difference.

If the Japanese weren’t targeting Singapore right off, and were looking more at the DEI, then by just allowing the troops to sit in Singapore just means that the Japanese will get around to stomping them in their own good time. Whereas moving them might allow them to take up either an opportunity into Siam or Vietnam, or at the very least a chance to fall back on India. Possibly also denying the Japanese Burma at a key moment.

The two Japanes troops that start out in Siam, sometimes one of them will take Vietnam on J1, then that troop will be needed to counter-attack into the Chinese territory with the Burma road on J2. That could leave British troops in Shan State with a chance to attack Siam or Vietnam.

Just a thought on trying to do something with those troops as opposed to having them sit there and get steamrolled game after game. :-)

[bradly]

I haven’t played the game that much and I believe that a J1 could make a strong opening. On the other hand I don’t think that the game is “broken” and there are some downsides to this tactic. If the ANZAC are under siege of the japanese, what is stopping the US from send a hell load of aircraft (bombers) in combination with there fleet towards the Japanese? If the Japanese want to attack mutiple targets like the UK “fleet”, the sub/transport of the DEI and Hawai there fleet is scattered and are easy pickings for the ANZAC fighters and US planes. The British could team up with the Chinese and counter attack the Japanese in the Asian main land.

[kaufschtick]

Well, it’s looking pretty good that I’ll be heading back out Dayton-way for another 15-18 hour AAP:40 game session on the 21st. We’ll (Buckeyeboy & I ) get a chance to see if the Americans can get an effective strategy going against Japan.

I also realized that in some of my posts here in this thread, that I was incorrectly calling the Marianas the Marshall islands!  :-o

Hell, I’ve been watching the HBO series The Pacific the past 5 weeks now, and I can’t wait to get another game session going! You here that TA!?!  :lol:

We thought the game was probably going to be balanced when we were just starting the Allied strategy I’ve been going on about in this thread, when we decided to try the J1 attack deal. We thought the J1 attack was some mystical super attack, but it turns out to be basically the same as the J2 or J3 attack, as far as Allied strategy goes.

So next Wednesday, we’ll get back to basics with the Allies, although we do like the J1 attack the best for them. At least, I think it’s the best Japanese turn to attack. What say you there, TA?

I guess I’ll find out Wednesday. 8-)

[Buckeyeboy]

I totally agree. J1 attack is the way to go. You give the US $40, but you get to destroy a US trans, a Brit BB and 2 trans, and now I’m thinking you may be able to take out the ANZAC DD and trans also. All at very little cost to J, depending on the dice, and it takes away the immediate naval offensive punch of the Allies. The only Allied trans is setting on the west coast of the US.

Can’t wait to test some scenarios on the 21st f2f.

[Van_Trump]

Well, I just finished playing 2 more games, once as the allies and once as the axis.
As Japan I restricted myself to J2 attack. My opponent attacked on J3 (He won’t do that again. Next time J1 attack for sure, he says.)

Rather than a J1 attack “breaking” the game, I think it makes it less enjoyable, particularly for the UK player. Yeah, I know you can evacuate the planes to Australia before India falls, but what fun is that?

After J1 attack, China and UK get stomped.

OK, after J2 they also get stomped but at least UK gets to do something with their fleet (occupying 2 money islands and linking up their RN). UK also gets lots more money to spend for at least one turn.

In a 2 player game it’s not that big a deal, but in a multiplayer game J2 attack is the way to go.

[Bigtiti]

@The:

@Frontovik:

we did j1 al the time, and japan almost never won
yes, it might get slim overproduction than allies, but allies can easily block convoys, while japan needs a 8 dollar ship to free them, while it only cost 6 to jam them
simple math, and japan ain’t in position to take australia or hawaii

Elaborate on easily block convoys. Did your Japanese fleet just sit in the Arctic ocean and do nothing? Or perhaps they took a vacation in Samoa? Or did you just scuttle them all in the beginning in favor of world peace?  :-D And the math clearly favors a J1 attack. I’m just not sure that it’s unbeatable.

what bout phillipines?
or do you split up your navy at every convoy, from japan to sumatra?
then i’d gladly play against you as allies ;)

[kaufschtick]

@Van_Trump:

Rather than a J1 attack “breaking” the game, I think it makes it less enjoyable, particularly for the UK player. Yeah, I know you can evacuate the planes to Australia before India falls, but what fun is that?

After J1 attack, China and UK get stomped.

Agreed, we’ve thought from day one with this game that the 5 player billing it gets is more than just a little stretch. China isn’t enough to keep anyone interested in a game, and now it seems obvious that Britian isn’t either.

@Van_Trump:

OK, after J2 they also get stomped but at least UK gets to do something with their fleet (occupying 2 money islands and linking up their RN). UK also gets lots more money to spend for at least one turn.

In a 2 player game it’s not that big a deal, but in a multiplayer game J2 attack is the way to go.

We thought for a short time that a 3 player game might not be bad, with one player taking China-Britian-ANZAC, but that’s about as many people as we can see playing this game together at once.

It seems more suited as a 2 player game, IMHO.

[SilverAngelSurfer]

@kaufschtick:

Agreed, we’ve thought from day one with this game that the 5 player billing it gets is more than just a little stretch. China isn’t enough to keep anyone interested in a game, and now it seems obvious that Britian isn’t either.

I thought it was billed as a 4-player game, with China being controlled by one of the other players?  Though I will admit that 4 players in this game would still not be great, as again whoever plays UK will probably be out relatively soon…

[TitusAndronicus]

I’m beginning to think the J3 attack is a tad bit underrated round these parts.

[Panzer4life]

Ok, if the J1 attack is to strong for the allies, learn to throw a dice. If you can master rolling a dice to get  the number you want, you could easily make the J1 attack that of a suicide bomber. I know learning to throw a dice they way you want is harder than I make it sound, but if it works, the Japan will be reeling from their losses.

[gamerman01]

@Panzer4life:

Ok, if the J1 attack is to strong for the allies, learn to throw a dice. If you can master rolling a dice to get  the number you want, you could easily make the J1 attack that of a suicide bomber. I know learning to throw a dice they way you want is harder than I make it sound, but if it works, the Japan will be reeling from their losses.

That’s about the truth.  J1 attack is a no-brainer when you’re Japan.

[idk_iam_swiss]

I dont roll dice i use http://www.random.org/dice/ Its soooo much better then rigging a games dice throws… like you guys try.

[Autarch]

@Panzer4life:

Ok, if the J1 attack is to strong for the allies, learn to throw a dice. If you can master rolling a dice to get  the number you want, you could easily make the J1 attack that of a suicide bomber. I know learning to throw a dice they way you want is harder than I make it sound, but if it works, the Japan will be reeling from their losses.

This game is so broke people now advocate cheating!  :lol:

[idk_iam_swiss]

ITs not broken. it just FORCES you to play a certain way if you want to win.

[Bube]

@idk_iam_swiss:

ITs not broken. it just FORCES you to play a certain way if you want to win.

agreed you just have to figure out how to win against it.

[Autarch]

@Bube:

@idk_iam_swiss:

ITs not broken. it just FORCES you to play a certain way if you want to win.

agreed you just have to figure out how to win against it.

Great! If you have done so, please feel free to detail these ways to win as the allies.

[idk_iam_swiss]

be cheap as the UK stop buying normal units ONLY buy people reinforce the burma road and shan state, take the dutch islands as america put everything in pearl harbor expect a loss thats fine, reinforce it with bombers

realize japan cant afford re resupply itself. if you hold out on the first three turns the game is yours JAPAN IS A GLASS CANNON. yes they are crazy strong but hold out. Stop thinking agressively

As america you have 4 strategies

ONE: Buy bombers put them in queensland, have anzac pile its fighters to back you up. then defen the UK

TWO: as america keep buying fleet after fleet japan CANT fight a two front war. never forget this. all you have to do is take the island tough to do i know, but YES it can be done.

THREE: As the Chinese concentrate your attack in the north. it will force the japanese to make a decision. either attack china or the UK.

Four: worst of all but try it anyway…ignore the japanese navy defend where you need to of course, but let the water crash upon the rocks hold out for a few turns and THEN build you make more then them when combined. OR just join UK and ANZAC…its cheap i know but treat them as one power…

[gamerman01]

Not bad, swiss.  I like the idea about concentrating Chinese forces toward the North.  Jap fighters can’t be in range of South Asia and North China at the same time, and China can make it’s way toward the money territories…  I have an opponent giving me a little trouble with this strat right now…  It probably won’t work for him, but I see good possibilities in a strat of concentrating Chinese forces toward the North.  Trying to go South and get the Burma road or link up with UK forces or whatever just makes Chinese and UK ground units all in range of the same Jap air.