Kamikaze!!!

[robbie358]

Alrighty then…

I’ve been playing this game since January and I had NEVER seen a kamikaze attack happen until last night.
Usually the US just bypasses all 4 of the islands required to be taken and goes straight for Japan or Korea, so it became like a recurring joke among our core group of gamers.

I was Japan and my friend George was all 4 allies.  I attacked J2 and over-extended myself by trying to hit New Britain, the Philippines, Celebes, Borneo, and the entire UK navy in one shot.  I left my fighters and tac bombers in Carolines to defend against a US force there but eventually moved them to the Philippines (because it’s the best place on the board for aircraft to be).
George hit the Marianas with an infantry and artillery then I killed his transport with a strategic bomber from Japan.  Next turn, right before UK went down I moved my Indies fleet to the Philippines to goad him into attacking it, which he did.
I targeted his cruisers, but only killed one of them (which sucked) but I succeeded in killing the rest of his forces as EVERYTHING ELSE GOT A HIT.  I don’t think he even knew that Marianas was an activator for kamikaze, so this begs my questions…

1. What’s with the 4-islands thing?  In the old Pacific you could do it whenever the allies got within about 2 spaces to Japan.
2. I think hitting anything other than cruisers or aircraft carriers with kamikaze is a total waste, destroyers aren’t worth that much and battleships take a REALLY lucky dice roll to go down.  Am I wrong?  Are you a total idiot if you bring a carrier within range of kamikaze?  I think so.
3. Why are the convoys and kamikaze symbols on the damn board so hard to read?  I play with a bunch of old people that can’t see well. (<— thats a joke guys)  You know who you are.
4. So you do it on ANY combat move phase?  Even your own?  It just happens when you say so?

[Hobbes]

@robbie358:

4. So you do it on ANY combat move phase?  Even your own?  It just happens when you say so?

Nope. Kamikazes are activated like planes scrambling from airbases. They can only happen if enemy ships make a combat move into one of the 6 SZs with the kamikaze symbol.

I’ve never seen the kamikazes being activated on any of my games. Historically they were a last effort attempt to stop the Allied advance into Japan and losing any of the 4 islands to the Allies will mean that Japan is losing the naval battle. The limited range (when compared with the original Pacific) is probably a mixture of historical reasons (kamikaze where probably loaded more with bombs than fuel) and game balance.

If you roll the Kamikaze 6 dice against a BB then you have a fair chance of sinking it (65%). If you split them between 2 targets (cruiser/carrier) and roll 3 dice then the odds are 69% for each roll of 3 dice. But since you are rolling seperately then the odds of hitting both targets will be lower than that. With 3 rolls of 2 dice for 3 targets, then the odds will be 57%. And so on…

[Krieghund]

@robbie358:

1. What’s with the 4-islands thing?  In the old Pacific you could do it whenever the allies got within about 2 spaces to Japan.

This rule was introduced to reflect the fact that kamikaze were a desperation weapon developed by Japan late in the war in order to defend itself.  In the original Pacific, it was used too often as a failsafe to allow leaving Japan undefended.

@robbie358:

3. Why are the convoys and kamikaze symbols on the damn board so hard to read?  I play with a bunch of old people that can’t see well. (<–- thats a joke guys)  You know who you are.

That’s a really good question!  I wish I had an answer.

@robbie358:

4. So you do it on ANY combat move phase?  Even your own?  It just happens when you say so?

As kamikaze are a defensive action, they may only be used on Allied turns.

[Variable]

@robbie358:

2. I think hitting anything other than cruisers or aircraft carriers with kamikaze is a total waste, destroyers aren’t worth that much and battleships take a REALLY lucky dice roll to go down.  Am I wrong?  Are you a total idiot if you bring a carrier within range of kamikaze?  I think so.

Don’t carriers take 2 hits to sink as well? I know they can’t land/launch planes after 1 hit, but you can still limp back to port and not lose the IPCs. Just saying it’s as difficult to sink a carrier as it is a battleship now…

[robbie358]

The thing about carriers is 1) if they take a hit they can’t land planes and therefore the planes will crash if they had to land on the carrier and 2) you’re moving into an  enemy sea zone so you won’t have a naval base, therefore a counterattack by Japan’s navy will be alot easier with 2 less planes to worry about

[Mino1124]

@robbie358:

3. Why are the convoys and kamikaze symbols on the damn board so hard to read?  I play with a bunch of old people that can’t see well. (<–- thats a joke guys)  You know who you are.

On my board I outlined the convoys with a black Sharpie and the Kamakazis with a red one. That worked REALLY well. I’ve not seen a kamakazi attack either.

[WILD BILL]

Two things puzzle me about Kami’s.

1. Why are the trigger islands different from the islands that can kami? Seems like you would not have to check the rule book for the trigger islands if they were the same as the islands with the kami symbols. There are only 2 islands that can kami but are not triggers, one is Formosa.

2. That brings me to the 2nd part of my puzzle:
   In this game if Japan is taken by the allies, it gets its next turn to try to get its capital back right (pg#18 under Capturing and Liberating Capitals). I know this would be rare, and we surly haven’t seen it happen. I would think that loosing Japan (capital) would surly be cause for desperation in later rounds, if you indeed were able to get Tokyo back on your turn. Shouldn’t Japan itself be a trigger for kami’s?

To make it simple why not just have the triggers and the islands able to kami be the same?

[Krieghund]

1)  The number of islands that hurt Japan enough by their loss to trigger kamikaze is smaller than the area in which they can effectively by used.

2)  The sudden loss of Japan itself before the loss of any other crucial territory would leave Japan too much in shock to develop the program.

[TitusAndronicus]

First Kamikaze attack was on Sunday.  Oh, the fun.

After the US got sick of fighting back and forth with Japanese (my) subs for the existing AB on Guam he barrelled into Iwo Jima and placed an AB/NB asap.  A turn later he tried to hit the Philippines while a bulk of the Japanese Navy was busy with ANZAC, forgetting the Kamikaze presence.  Needless to say he lost a fully loaded carrier, that proved to be fairly decisive when the Japanese Navy outside Australia came back and attacked the weaked US fleet outside Manilla.

[WILD BILL]

@Krieghund:

1)  The number of islands that hurt Japan enough by their loss to trigger kamikaze is smaller than the area in which they can effectively by used.

2)  The sudden loss of Japan itself before the loss of any other crucial territory would leave Japan too much in shock to develop the program.

Other then Japan its self we’re only taking about Formosa.

If Japan its self was taken, then liberated the next turn, there’s no way Jap wouldn’t pull out all the tricks to stop it from happening again (regardless if allies took a particular island or not). Fool me once, my bad, attempt it again and off come the gloves.

The game mechanics allow for Japan to lose its capital, then gain it back (not like that would happen for real). I’m also thinking about the global game. It could very well become an allies strat to simply not go for the trigger islands (to avoid kami’s) just go for the crown. In global it would be possible for Tokyo to fall and not be liberated for several rounds.

I’m not really buying the develop the program theory, because it could be several rounds before a second allied attempt could be taken at the jugular, along w/bypassing the trigger islands. Besides what development, they had an idea to put bombs in planes, and fly them into US ships. The only problem would be finding the inexperienced pilots to give up their lives. I can see not allowing it on the first time allies attack and take Tokyo, but a second attempt they would be prepared for, and would do what ever it takes.

[Veqryn]

kamikaze’s don’t happen until japan has already lost the game

seriously,
the usa (and allies) have zero reason to take any of those islands, when they can just bypass them for other goodies

i suggest changing America’s National Objective to only be for 1 of the 2 islands, instead of requiring both.  that would give america a reason (5ipc reason) to take one of the islands, which would then activate kamikazes

oh, and i forgot to mention, not only are kamikaze’s never seen, but America’s 2 okin/iwo NO is also never seen.  For the same reason.  You will never see either of these two things happen until the game is already lost for the japanese.

[Razor]

@Veqryn:

oh, and i forgot to mention, not only are kamikaze’s never seen, but America’s 2 okin/iwo NO is also never seen.  For the same reason.  You will never see either of these two things happen until the game is already lost for the japanese.

You never see US take Oki/Iwo because your buddies dont play USA correct, and this is also the reason nobody here know how to stop the J1 attack on India. Listen dude, in the real war USA never bothered to take Caroline nor DEI. US went directly for Oki/Iwo and build airbases on them, and they won the war. So that is why Larry made them NO island, he wants you to do the same, if you want to win.