Besides, the Soviets aren’t even in the Pacific version, and West India is balanced by British Columbia, so it’s even there and the European UK doesn’t get more…
Vichy France
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@The:
The central france stack “might” be big enough that germany has to attack it Round 2. And a G1 and It1 attack on Brittany and Vichy respectively is the propper move.
The only 100% ahistorical thing that is going to happen is, the french atlantic fleet is going to be big, and survive.
I think that They did have a big atlantic fleet. Bigger than Germany’s anyhow. And I read somewhere that Germany should be able to take Central France on round one if they devote enough, but that if they tried to shirk from all out, France might have a chance of surviving one round. I would think this would be Germany devastating if they survive to build any units.
That is what has been on mind lately, the French Atlantic fleet. Historically, they did survive and endured a lot of punishment, from the Germans and their British allies. The former tried to of course intern the ships and put them to their own use, but the latter gave them two options; Swim with us, or sink right there!
I’m wondering how this will be equated, more so than any potential French land units. Not to mention the fleet strength and restrictions/rules. (Come on, you know that was coming)
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We are all wondering. I think this could be the make or break for adding France to the game.
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After Paris falls, and is held for one turn, I’m guessing the fleet, if anything of it is left, will be divided up. Maybe by dice roll, or perhaps when the Germans take a home port, or maybe if the fleet is near a British port. Thats something that would allow a Vichy element, without compromising what Larry said.
Another way this could work is that effectively the French fleet is still Allied, and lives on to fight another day. Of course, this does pose tremendous problems, so I’m hoping for the first scenario or something else like it.
Of course, we shouldn’t assume that the French fleet, when realized on the board will be too particularly large. My guess would be; 1 battleship, 2 destroyer, and/or 1 cruiser.
Any thoughts on this?
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After Paris falls, and is held for one turn, I’m guessing the fleet, if anything of it is left, will be divided up. Maybe by dice roll, or perhaps when the Germans take a home port, or maybe if the fleet is near a British port. Thats something that would allow a Vichy element, without compromising what Larry said.
Another way this could work is that effectively the French fleet is still Allied, and lives on to fight another day. Of course, this does pose tremendous problems, so I’m hoping for the first scenario or something else like it.
Of course, we shouldn’t assume that the French fleet, when realized on the board will be too particularly large. My guess would be; 1 battleship, 2 destroyer, and/or 1 cruiser.
Any thoughts on this?
I’m thinking the second option there is the simplest and therefore most likely. Any surviving French fleet will just continue to exist as a French fleet as part of the Allies, just as a UK or Italian fleet would if London or Rome is captured. Yes, it’ll be kinda annoying to move it separately from the US/UK, but it’ll still be a help and might allow for some can-opener type naval attacks to keep Italy/Germany from destroyer blocking as much.
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I hope that Free France can at least pop some infs from Brazzaville. Similar to China but without that eye-damaging ACME wall!
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Okay, here are the house rules I use. I converted the starting forces from “World in Flames” to Axis and Allies, with a start date of June 1941.
XXI. Vichy French. Vichy units will not move or attack. Until attacked, any income from a Vichy territory goes to the German player. If a Vichy territory is attacked, roll a die for each Vichy unit prior to combat. On a roll of 1-3, the unit becomes Free French. On a roll of 4 the unit disbands and destroys/scuttles its equipment. On a roll of 5-6 the unit joins the Axis and is replaced by a German unit.
Vichy territories:
Southern France: 2 infantry, 1 battleship, 1 destroyer
Morrocco: 1 infantry, 1 battleship
Algeria: 1 infantry, 1 destroyer -
Two battle ships?
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I’m thinking the second option there is the simplest and therefore most likely. Any surviving French fleet will just continue to exist as a French fleet as part of the Allies, just as a UK or Italian fleet would if London or Rome is captured. Yes, it’ll be kinda annoying to move it separately from the US/UK, but it’ll still be a help and might allow for some can-opener type naval attacks to keep Italy/Germany from destroyer blocking as much.
True. After a night pondering, if would be the simplest, and as others have pointed (including Larry himself) the French were still Allies, regardless of the Vichy. It is kind of like saying Americans weren’t dying in the Revolution because of collaborators and Benedict Arnold. Or that the Republic of China wasn’t fighting for its very survival because of Wang Chingwei or Puyi.
The French fleet does add an interesting element, never before seen in A&A. This fleet could potentially stay in the Mediterranean, roam the Atlantic, or even the Pacific.
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Southern France, Algeria and Morrocco should become Axis controlled by Germany and the french fleet should remain french.
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I think these territories might be like French Indo-China and New Hebrides in the Pacific. Just there, per say. They’ll be empty, and can only be accessed by sending a land unit. If the French do have some colonial garrison left, it won’t be much…
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I think these territories might be like French Indo-China and New Hebrides in the Pacific. Just there, per say. They’ll be empty, and can only be accessed by sending a land unit. If the French do have some colonial garrison left, it won’t be much…
I think in the global game there should have some garrison. Probably just an Inf
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I think these territories might be like French Indo-China and New Hebrides in the Pacific. Just there, per say. They’ll be empty, and can only be accessed by sending a land unit. If the French do have some colonial garrison left, it won’t be much…
I think in the global game there should have some garrison. Probably just an Inf
Yeah, I agree. Probably scattered about, though North African French units are guaranteed, maybe in Syria and Madagascar as well. I also now think the French fleet will have at least one transport.
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why was france even added if they arent capible of doing their part in history
Change sides frequently and to the detrement of their allies -
why was france even added if they arent capible of doing their part in history
Change sides frequently and to the detrement of their alliesThere is definitely need for improvement in this “King of A and A games”. Oh well. At the rate they’re churning them out, we should see the next one by like 2012 (of course, that’s when the world will be ending apparently so we’d better get it right this time.)
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This is a very sticky situation
On the one hand empty french territory, leaves for Allied Madagascar, Which is just wrong historically.
On the other hand this IS a game and cannot be plagued by political rules, which are going to be a problem no matter what in 1940. The whole game is in quite a fix, but in the end we’ll all buy it and love it.However I hope Flashman’s idea comes out the winner
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This is a very sticky situation
On the one hand empty french territory, leaves for Allied Madagascar, Which is just wrong historically.
On the other hand this IS a game and cannot be plagued by political rules, which are going to be a problem no matter what in 1940. The whole game is in quite a fix, but in the end we’ll all buy it and love it.However I hope Flashman’s idea comes out the winner
I agree, I do like Flashman’s ideas. Hopefully, Larry gets this right.
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i think that vichy rules are cool for historical accuracy, but they are confusing sometimes and definately slow the game down. everytime ive tried to use vichy rules applied as soon as france or paris falls, out comes the rule book and the momentum of the game takes a nosedive. how much does this really impact the game anyway? probably better off letting the gemans run over the rest of frech controlled territorys in africa and letting the u.s. and the brits decide if they want to defend them or take them back. french navy can ethier go to brits, germans, or be scuttled per zeno world at war rules.
what does anyone think?
by the way happy easter! -
by the way,
reading all the posts on french territorys in africa. all great ideas, with bases in dakar andsub bases in madagascar, but how in the world can they fit those places in on the upcomming AAE40 and keep it in scale with the AAP40 map? somebody explain how this can possibily work. -
by the way,
reading all the posts on french territorys in africa. all great ideas, with bases in dakar andsub bases in madagascar, but how in the world can they fit those places in on the upcomming AAE40 and keep it in scale with the AAP40 map? somebody explain how this can possibily work.I am sure they made both maps before they released Pacific or at least had a good idea of what it was going to look like.
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