Railway

[supermestizo]

Hi

Railway movement should only happen in Non-Combat-Movement Phase in my opinion.
Maybe there should be a limit, of how long/many territories a unit can rail through, example 4-6 territories?
Also, maybe the rail limit should be lower for continent like Africa and Asia then Europe, since there was much more railways in Europe then in any other continent. Just some thoughts.
The easiest way to include this is, no railway marker at all.
You can rail from wherever to wherever you want, it takes part in the non-combat-movement and a unit have a limit distance of 4-6 territories it can rail through.

[mike55]

I developed a Europe game using railroad.  The map consisted of 3 inch wide hexagons.  Railway movement was unlimited in a chain of contiguous hexes; these hexes had to be friendly controlled at the beginning of the current turn. Railway movement was permitted in Non-combat movement only.  I did not use Railroad markers; I had experimented with them and rejected them as too cluttering.  I instead used railway damage markers (yes, made of cardboard); units could use rail movement to enter, but not exit a hex with a rail damage marker.  Railways could be damaged in three ways: 1) there was an automatic damage of one point for every turn of land combat in a hex, 2) strategic bombing could cause 0-3 damage points, 3) an infantry unit that does not move or combat may cause one point of damage (engineers destroying bridges) per turn.   In case of infantry damage, there was a maximum of one point per turn.  Repairs were done by paying a repair cost in the Purchase Units phase. I had plans for a fourth means of causing rail damage by partisans, but I haven’t established that rule and I haven’t worked on the game in a number of months.  My adult son and I have play tested it a few times. The rail system worked quite well.  Oh, maximum damage was set at 3.  The rail system was effective because I based the game on a time scale of 1 turn=3 months.  I renamed combat movement to tactical movement and non-combat movement to strategic movement.  Tactical movement for all unit types was based on the traditional system, although I gave destroyers and cruisers 3 movement points.  Strategic movement of all unit types was unlimited, but could be interdicted. However, I will restrict my comments here to railway movement.  The key to the whole structure was hexagons, making 1 movement point the same in Africa as it is in Europe or the Atlantic. I only occasionally strayed from  geographic scale for game purposes.

[mike55]

I wrote my game version just as a counter point, not necessarily one that would work in AAE40.  I like Supermetizo’s idea, which was posted while I was writing my post. In my game, North Africa did not have rail movement except in Egypt which was two hexes, anyway.

[Emperor_Taiki]

@finnman:

@Emperor_Taiki:

@Imperious:

Whatever the thing is:

1. it must be able to be increased and damaged

2. not cost too much compared to what it does

3. facilitate only NCM bonus

Army Base
Costs 15, can be built in any territory controlled at the begining of the turn.
In the non-combat phase it increases movement of land units by one
can take 6 damage points and if it takes 3 it does not increase NCM.

That movement increase is pretty powerful, i think 15 per tt is reasonable

they should give an other bonus like repairing capital ships and scrambling

thats a good point, do you have any ideas? land units dont take damage and they dont defend sea zones hmmm….

i cant think of anything good and the increased movement justifies the cost as it is.

[Emperor_Taiki]

@mike55:

I developed a Europe game using railroad.  The map consisted of 3 inch wide hexagons.  Railway movement was unlimited in a chain of contiguous hexes; these hexes had to be friendly controlled at the beginning of the current turn. Railway movement was permitted in Non-combat movement only.  I did not use Railroad markers; I had experimented with them and rejected them as too cluttering.  I instead used railway damage markers (yes, made of cardboard); units could use rail movement to enter, but not exit a hex with a rail damage marker.  Railways could be damaged in three ways: 1) there was an automatic damage of one point for every turn of land combat in a hex, 2) strategic bombing could cause 0-3 damage points, 3) an infantry unit that does not move or combat may cause one point of damage (engineers destroying bridges) per turn.   In case of infantry damage, there was a maximum of one point per turn.  Repairs were done by paying a repair cost in the Purchase Units phase. I had plans for a fourth means of causing rail damage by partisans, but I haven’t established that rule and I haven’t worked on the game in a number of months.  My adult son and I have play tested it a few times. The rail system worked quite well.  Oh, maximum damage was set at 3.  The rail system was effective because I based the game on a time scale of 1 turn=3 months.  I renamed combat movement to tactical movement and non-combat movement to strategic movement.  Tactical movement for all unit types was based on the traditional system, although I gave destroyers and cruisers 3 movement points.  Strategic movement of all unit types was unlimited, but could be interdicted. However, I will restrict my comments here to railway movement.  The key to the whole structure was hexagons, making 1 movement point the same in Africa as it is in Europe or the Atlantic. I only occasionally strayed from  geographic scale for game purposes.

your game sounds pretty awesome. but it seems as though alot of major changes have to take play if rail movement is too be realistic. in regular A&A, unlimted land movement isnt going to make sence or be realistic.

PS: take some pictures of your variation and put them on the site, everyone will love them.

[crusaderiv]

Railway movement should only happen in Non-Combat-Movement Phase in my opinion.
I agree with supermetizo.
Infantry and artillery can move 2 zones.

North Africa did not have rail movement except in Egypt which was two hexes, anyway.
Wrong!!! ( I study railway history)
Africa:
There was a railway between morocco-lybia.
Cairo (egypt) to suez canal.
Morocco though west french africa and french equatorial to Liberia.
South africa to kenya.
(Those railway was built by french and british company).

Germany-USSR
Bandar Shapur (Southern Iran) Stalingrad-Moscow-Arkhangelsk.
Moscow-Leningrad-minsk-smolensk
Some railway between Germany-Poland-Ukraine and Germany-slovakia-hungary-rumania.
(Note: Russian railway didn’t have the same railroad gauge has the rest of European countries.

In Asia, the principal railway:
Manchukuo to korea (part of trans-siberian)
Manchukuo to pekin- hofeh-shandong to kwangtung.
1 railway in indochina.(saigon)
Singapore (malaya) to bangkok (thailand).
Rangoon-Moulmen-Mandalay-Mogaung.(malaya though burma)
Note: This railway was completed with US and UK POW.
There was a lot of small railroad in India and one join burma to Chittagong and the terminal was ledo. (burma).

[WILD BILL]

Razor, I do like your concept. The problem I’m having is tanks being able to attack three tt away when starting at a rail station. Maybe any ground unit starting at a rail station gets to move 2 spaces. This will allow inf/art +1. You could allow tanks/mech to move 1 space before boarding the train (giving them 3 moves in some cases), but don’t allow them to move after the train ride. You could ride the train right into enemy tt as long as your RR was 2 spaces away. Would be kinda like departing a transport, you don’t get to move an extra space.

[Emperor_Taiki]

@WILD:

Razor, I do like your concept. The problem I’m having is tanks being able to attack three tt away when starting at a rail station. Maybe any ground unit starting at a rail station gets to move 2 spaces. This will allow inf/art +1. You could allow tanks/mech to move 1 space before boarding the train (giving them 3 moves in some cases), but don’t allow them to move after the train ride. You could ride the train right into enemy tt as long as your RR was 2 spaces away. Would be kinda like departing a transport, you don’t get to move an extra space.

Its a whole lot simpler, better for game play, and historicaly accurate if Army bases can only increase movement in the NCM phase.

[mike55]

I’ve been away from this thread for awhile with report cards, parent-teacher interviews and other forms of making a living that get in the way of a good game.  Thanks to crusaderiv for correcting me on the railways in North Africa.  I’ll correct that in my game.  As for pictures, I’ll try and get some of the map as the game isn’t set up right now. The map is old school- hand drawn so it won’t be as sharp as the computer generated ones. Thanks for the interest.

[Imperious Leader]

As i said before all you need to do is allow units in NCM moving in originally controlled territories move an extra space equal to your total placement capability, which in turn can be bombed and are reduced by SBR. So if Germany has one factory and its got damage of 2, then only 8 land units can be moved like this.

[Emperor_Taiki]

@Imperious:

As i said before all you need to do is allow units in NCM moving in originally controlled territories move an extra space equal to your total placement capability, which in turn can be bombed and are reduced by SBR. So if Germany has one factory and its got damage of 2, then only 8 land units can be moved like this.

that method is too abstract for me.

I was also thinking of another method

Railroad
Cost: 15 IPC
It connects two territories and movement between these two territories is free in the NCM phase.
It can be SBed just like air and naval bases.

I want to see the railroads on the board and see what damage I have done to my enemies railines and where I have done it.

[Imperious Leader]

So to move six spaces you need to spend 45 IPC?

or two?

Id rather have 10 or 15 infantry depending…

[Emperor_Taiki]

@Imperious:

So to move six spaces you need to spend 45 IPC?

or two?

Id rather have 10 or 15 infantry depending…

You think it costs too much? If you have three in a row it allows you to move your whole inf army four spaces. Shifting that kinda weight that quickly is pretty powerfull.

Perhaps 12 IPCs is more reasonable?

[Imperious Leader]

infantry already move one space, so for 3 more spaces you spend 45 ipc?  36ipc?

Thats a full turn + of German income, when you could just buy transports for 6 IPC and shuck more for cheaper from Germany to karelia.

Germany can only make like 10 infantry but realistically say 6, so 3 transports for 18 do the same thing…

Then if the enemy takes your territory you lost this just as if you lost your transports by enemy air.

Oh but wait… in AAE40/ AAG40 the allies cant get planes into the Baltic unless they control both sides, so buying transports is even better than spending 12 or 15 IPC to watch it get damaged?

[Emperor_Taiki]

Fair point, so you think they should cost 6 IPC? You cant use transpots too move your guys to moscow or stalingrad which are both like six space away from berlin in 1940E. And transports are not going to allow the germans too move quickly too western or southern europe. Also they would be useful for Russia who cant count on using transports to move its units either.

[Imperious Leader]

no not cost anything.

but damageable

dont need a new unit or thing to worry about.

Thats why i tied it to the factories. Placement points = Redeployment points

Build more factories and you got more infrastructure like rails to move around.

[Emperor_Taiki]

@Imperious:

no not cost anything.

but damageable

dont need a new unit or thing to worry about.

Thats why i tied it to the factories. Placement points = Redeployment points

Build more factories and you got more infrastructure like rails to move around.

Well like I said, thats too abstract for me. I want too decide which raillines too attack and see how much I have damaged each one. I want to be able to target different fronts, not bomb germany in order to take out railines everywhere.

[crusaderiv]

Railway = no cost.
Damageable? Attack from fighter, bomber….
Naa…
Artillery and infantry move two spaces during non combat move…
Simple as that…

[Imperious Leader]

ok modification:

The factory either major or minor you own can move units equal to its current placement capability anywhere with 2 spaces counted from its direction.

So to make a chain of factories: Example- the Soviet player might use the one in karelia which can move two units to another factory located three spaces away and even move a bit further to another 2 spaces away from that.

or if that is too much make it one space allowing the maximum distance to be six spaces if your build the factories with this in mind.

Artillery and infantry move two spaces during non combat move…

This is my original idea, except i like the ability to bomb it or reduce it , just like in the war. Thats what the allies did to Germany before and after D-day

[crusaderiv]

This is my original idea,
Ahhhhhhhhhh……are you sure? :-D

i like the ability to bomb it or reduce it , just like in the war. Thats what the allies did to Germany before and after D-day.
Yes but because germany lost air supremacy over France and Germany.