Japanese Strategies

[Gravy]

I’ve tried the subs tactics many times, all the Japanese player has to do is send one destroyer with a bomber or two and the subs are gone…they just don’t defend well at all.  I can take a few of the Islands now and then, even leave a few ships but the fortress from the Plilipines just blows them up.

The key is getting the Japanese player to make a mistake with his purchases, not timimg his transports properly or not protecting them. but we find that its alot easier for the Japan player to recover from a mistake than the allies since it takes so long for tthe allies to rebuild.

[Hobbes]

@Gravy:

I’ve tried the subs tactics many times, all the Japanese player has to do is send one destroyer with a bomber or two and the subs are gone…they just don’t defend well at all.  I can take a few of the Islands now and then, even leave a few ships but the fortress from the Plilipines just blows them up.

The key is getting the Japanese player to make a mistake with his purchases, not timimg his transports properly or not protecting them. but we find that its alot easier for the Japan player to recover from a mistake than the allies since it takes so long for tthe allies to rebuild.

When I use sub tactics I send only 1 sub for each SZ and as many as possible so that Japan needs 1 DD for each SZ and if he uses them they are attacked as well by more US subs and bombers (if in range). The US can produce more subs that Japan can build destroyers and still buy land units for asia, and you’re exchanging  6 IPC units for 8 IPC ones.

If the US keeps this eventually Japan starts running out of DDs (by purchasing errors or simply by numbers) and that will limit its naval options, plus it will have to protect its transports while they are ferrying troops around, in addition to threatening a dent on its income from convoy raids. .

You can also try getting as many bombers as possible to Australia to hit any transports that land units on the DEI. It might also be stop Japan from conquering all of DEI on J3 by landing all the US bombers and the ANZAC/UK planes on Sumatra (or even Java, depending on where the Japanese carriers are). It won’t stop Japan from taking them later on but it might give an extra turn for the Allies to catch up.

[Gravy]

Some nice ideas there hobbes…I will try them out tomorrow, I do always purchase 1 bomber every round for US but maybe all subs purchase instead of destroyers and battleships might be the way to go. Problem is that you can’t protect your transports when you buy all subs.

I’ll have to keep the transports in New Zealand. I will be more aggressive with India as well.

[Veqryn]

i do not really see a J1 attack as being that useful.  you start out with only 2 transports, and if you do a j1 attack you need to commit forces to too many areas while being out of position.  you immediately give USA an extra 50 income, when most of your attacks will be happening J2 anyway. 
anyways, what do you guys think of the things i actually listed in the original post?

[Gravy]

A J1 attack only works when you leave the Philipines for J2 while purchasing 3 transports J1.  I’ve been telling you guys this now for weeks, try it as Japan and you will see how deadly it really is.  Then purchase a minor IC in Asia ans just build 3 tanks per turn.  It is a powerful Japanese strat that is really hard to stop.

We came close a few times as the allies but it is hard to stop because Japan can build alot of ships every turn and use the Philipines as its central core for all its attacks.

[The Fire Knight]

@Gravy:

A J1 attack only works when you leave the Philipines for J2 while purchasing 3 transports J1.  I’ve been telling you guys this now for weeks, try it as Japan and you will see how deadly it really is.  Then purchase a minor IC in Asia ans just build 3 tanks per turn.  It is a powerful Japanese strat that is really hard to stop.

We came close a few times as the allies but it is hard to stop because Japan can build alot of ships every turn and use the Philipines as its central core for all its attacks.

Yes, I like building 3 transports as well as Japan R1. But I believe that the best way to kill the allies is a J1 attack on the 4 chinese territories, Shan State, French Indo-china, Kwangtung, Phillipines, and Celebes. I take all of these on round 1 and then take all of the DEI R@. This skyrockets Japanese income to 41 on turn 2 and like over 60 turn 3. I then steadily make my way through China and into India with a Malayan factory (useful for both an Indian and an ANZAC invasion). Thoughts?

[Gravy]

J1 attack eliminates the British battleship and 2 transports,thats huge…also takes out all of USA transports in range and it kills Britains economy right away.

[Van_Trump]

I’ll have to try the J1 attack without invading the phillipines until J2 (still taking out the navy of course)
Gives an extra 7 ipcs to the usa, though.

[Hobbes]

@Veqryn:

i do not really see a J1 attack as being that useful.  you start out with only 2 transports, and if you do a j1 attack you need to commit forces to too many areas while being out of position.  you immediately give USA an extra 50 income, when most of your attacks will be happening J2 anyway.  
anyways, what do you guys think of the things i actually listed in the original post?

With a J1 attack the Allies have to deal with Japan with whatever is left from the initial attack. If you do a little math the 40 extra IPCs that the US win are almost the same as the money you prevent the UK from earning (13 instead of 31 on UK1, 13 instead of 23 on UK2) and the US (55 instead of 62, if you attack also the Phillipines, which I did on my game), for a total of 35. But you’ve got rid of the UK BB, all the US units on the Phillipines, the DEI is left completely undefended unless the Allies land planes there and the US will be too weak to even move its fleet to Hawaii.

I’d definitely add an early J attack (either J1 or J2) to your list because the longer the wait the better the allies will be prepared to slow down Japan. I’ve tried the conquer of ANZAC but I lost that game to the allies.

I completely agree with using only planes to kill lonely Chinese units before they can move to liberate territories or to remove from play the Flying Tigers.

[The Fire Knight]

@Hobbes:

@Veqryn:

i do not really see a J1 attack as being that useful.  you start out with only 2 transports, and if you do a j1 attack you need to commit forces to too many areas while being out of position.  you immediately give USA an extra 50 income, when most of your attacks will be happening J2 anyway. 
anyways, what do you guys think of the things i actually listed in the original post?

With a J1 attack the Allies have to deal with Japan with whatever is left from the initial attack. If you do a little math the 40 extra IPCs that the US win are almost the same as the money you prevent the UK from earning (13 instead of 31 on UK1, 13 instead of 23 on UK2) and the US (55 instead of 62, if you attack also the Phillipines, which I did on my game), for a total of 35. But you’ve got rid of the UK BB, all the US units on the Phillipines, the DEI is left completely undefended unless the Allies land planes there and the US will be too weak to even move its fleet to Hawaii.

I’d definitely add an early J attack (either J1 or J2) to your list because the longer the wait the better the allies will be prepared to slow down Japan. I’ve tried the conquer of ANZAC but I lost that game to the allies.

Yea. I did that same math. This game is all about math if you think about it. The more math you incorporate in your strategy, the better that strategy is. I think the only time a J1 attack might not be the best thing to do is if you are trying some strategy with tricking the allies (ex. going for the WEstern U.S. or whatever else you’ve got up your sleeve). Otherwise J1 is the best I think.

[katfishkris]

i have built 3ss with the US every turn before.  works good.  have anzac and UK build 1ss each turn and pretty soon allied subs outnumber jap dd.  use the subs to blockade the convoy routes and you can cut off japs money, making life much easier.

[Gwlachmai]

@The:

@Gravy:

The one thread has already discussed this issue with the conclusion that Japan shouldn’t be allowed to build an IC in Asia.  IC’s can only be built in Japan or Ausralia.  Hard to stop Japan when they only need to build 3 tanks for asia a turn and then buy carriers and battleships…by turn 3 Japan is at 65 and the Philipines is a fortress with unbelievable range that will rip the allies apart when they get close.

If Japan doesn’t take dumb chances and slowly bleeds India, its over.

And i saw that thread too, and the only reason you guys came to “a conclusion” that Japan shouldn’t be able to build an IC in Asia is b/c many of us saw the thread and though it was such a stupid idea that they didn’t bother responding.

Correct!

[Hobbes]

@The:

Yes, I like building 3 transports as well as Japan R1. But I believe that the best way to kill the allies is a J1 attack on the 4 chinese territories, Shan State, French Indo-china, Kwangtung, Phillipines, and Celebes. I take all of these on round 1 and then take all of the DEI R@.

How much fleet do you send to protect the transport going to Celebes? Otherwise the Japanese transport will be sunk by the UK preventing Japan from taking all of the DEI on J2.

[The Fire Knight]

@Hobbes:

@The:

Yes, I like building 3 transports as well as Japan R1. But I believe that the best way to kill the allies is a J1 attack on the 4 chinese territories, Shan State, French Indo-china, Kwangtung, Phillipines, and Celebes. I take all of these on round 1 and then take all of the DEI R@.

How much fleet do you send to protect the transport going to Celebes? Otherwise the Japanese transport will be sunk by the UK preventing Japan from taking all of the DEI on J2.

Well I’m a perfectionist so I spent a lot of time thinking about a Jap strategy and I think mine is going to be soon unbeatable (in my humble opinion  :-D ) after a bit more revising. There are a lot of logistics involved, but i sent my Caroline islands transport, battleship, and carrier to celebes, and then have a tac and a fighter land on them at the end of the turn. this easily protects them against the small British fleet (the only 2 units that can reach me if I remember correctly).

[Hobbes]

@The:

Well I’m a perfectionist so I spent a lot of time thinking about a Jap strategy and I think mine is going to be soon unbeatable (in my humble opinion  :-D ) after a bit more revising. There are a lot of logistics involved, but i sent my Caroline islands transport, battleship, and carrier to celebes, and then have a tac and a fighter land on them at the end of the turn. this easily protects them against the small British fleet (the only 2 units that can reach me if I remember correctly).

That’s what I imagined. On my J1 attack I simply send it unescorted and let the UK sink it. I wanted to keep the AC and the BB on the Carolines to prevent the US fleet from moving into Hawaii, which worked out nicely.

[Gravy]

gwlachmai, u must be playing a different game than me then because a good Japanese player should win 80% of the time with the J1 attack, J2 hit philipines, and destroy British Navy leaving two subs on India convoy…bleed India slowly to its death.

With just a minor IC in Kwangtung or FIC, 3 tanks a turn will allow the Japanese player to outproduce the allies in the Pacific, using the Philipines as its main base, the range is deadly.

Sure the allies can hit the Islands here and there  and put subs in convoys but its easily taken back with a good Jap player.

[Gwlachmai]

I must be. Granted the J1 attack is tougher to deal with then a J2 or J3, but, I’m willing to be patient and see how the global game impacts the pretty much standard J1 assault. Otherwise in my gaming circle the Allies have racked up a decent number of wins. In the forum games, I’m playing two allied games, but, both are still pretty early so we’ll see how those go.

Not allowing IC’s to be built is kind of extreme to me, and to say that a consensus was reached in the other thread is misleading at best.

[Praetorian]

@The:

And i saw that thread too, and the only reason you guys came to “a conclusion” that Japan shouldn’t be able to build an IC in Asia is b/c many of us saw the thread and though it was such a stupid idea that they didn’t bother responding.

Really?  'cause the best example that was given to suggest that the IC wasn’t unbalanced in the thread was “well, its always been done.”  Feel free to add something useful to that thread.

But y’know, hey, I love it when my idle musings are called dumb.  Happy weekend to you too.

[Praetorian]

@The:

Yes, I like building 3 transports as well as Japan R1. But I believe that the best way to kill the allies is a J1 attack on the 4 chinese territories, Shan State, French Indo-china, Kwangtung, Phillipines, and Celebes. I take all of these on round 1 and then take all of the DEI R@. This skyrockets Japanese income to 41 on turn 2 and like over 60 turn 3. I then steadily make my way through China and into India with a Malayan factory (useful for both an Indian and an ANZAC invasion). Thoughts?

A strong J1 does not need to involve attacking the US1.  Waiting to attack the US on J2 or J3 keeps their economy hobbled while the Japanese player continues to see their economy steadily increase.  By J3 they can be in a good spot looming down on India and building a solid defense against the US.

The problem with an all-out attack against all the Allies is that it quickly overextends the Japanese.  Playing as India, I’m a happy many when the Japanese player gets hyper aggressive as Fire Knight suggests… I can fortify India enough to make it impossible to take Calcutta until J4+ - which gives the US a long time to build up.  This also means that the aircraft the Japanese want to use to ensure victory in India will need to be diverted (at least in part) to the E. pacific to defend against the US.  Worse, it gives the US the time and economy to reinforce Australia.  2 extra turns of 50+ IPC is a big deal - even if Japan is neck-and-neck simply because the US only needs to bring their might to bear in one (maybe 2) places while the Japanese, tied down in Asia, is going to need to have forces in 4 spots (India, S Pacific, E Pacific and usually one other place - often SW Pacific or C Pacific).

So far, I’m not sold that an all-out attack against all 3 Allies is the best idea.

[Praetorian]

@Gravy:

gwlachmai, u must be playing a different game than me then because a good Japanese player should win 80% of the time with the J1 attack, J2 hit philipines, and destroy British Navy leaving two subs on India convoy…bleed India slowly to its death.

With just a minor IC in Kwangtung or FIC, 3 tanks a turn will allow the Japanese player to outproduce the allies in the Pacific, using the Philipines as its main base, the range is deadly.

Sure the allies can hit the Islands here and there  and put subs in convoys but its easily taken back with a good Jap player.

Thats pretty much my conclusion as well.  If you have two equally good players, Japan, I think has a strong advantage.  After 6+ plays I’m having trouble figuring out how to really stop a good Japanese player.  I can get lucky if the Japanese overextend themselves in the first round or two, but it relies heavily on some really good rolls by the Allies to stay in the game.  If the rolls go average, Japan pretty much has the game wrapped up as long as they dont do something monumentally stupid.