Why isn't Italy in this game instead of Japan?

[UKcommander]

Sure I’d be interesting in seeing it. Yours is a lot better than mine, but I’ll post it in a bit.

[MistaBiggs]

Send me an e-mail, so I’ll have your e-mail address to reply to (with the attached MapView file and I can also include the Rules in Microsoft Word format).

[Guest]

@MistaBiggs:

…and it won’t be completely “historically” accurate. Also, I have yet to test it out …

First of all: good work, MB.
But, i have nitpicking in my blood, so i hope you don’t mind if i comment a few things, mainly on historicalness.

ITALY RULES:
…
Italian territories:
• Syria-Iraq’s – raise IPC value to 2 (On April 3, 1941, a Pro-Axis regime was set up in Iraq)

Well, that is true, but by the 1st of June that had already fallen. So, you might consider either letting it be British again (as one half of Syria/Iraq never was in control by the Axis) or putting some Brits there to retake it as quick as it happened.

Italian units:…
• Italian E. Africa – 2 infantry, 1 tank and 1 fighter (had air base)
• Syria-Iraq – 1 infantry

The forces in East Africa then need quite a lot of British units around them, and even if there was an airbase … there were a lot of airbases everywhere :)…
i think the number of units in E.A. is too high, considering that they had trouble to be supplied once the war action started.
For syria/iraq … well, the regime hold for less than two month, do you really think that is worth an inf?

German units:
• Black SZ – 1 sub
• W. Spain SZ – 1 sub and 1 transport
• M. Med. SZ – 1 battleship

German fleet in the Med ? …… No way!

UK units:
• Congo – 1 infantry
• Persia – 1 infantry
• Anglo-Egypt Sudan – 1 infantry, 1 tank, 1 A/A
• Union of S. Africa – 2 infantry

Not enough. There surely was an air base somewhere in Egypt ;) (just to make sure why i think Italy has too many fighters).

Additional Rules:…

Hmmm…… adding a new class of tanks makes the game IMHO unnecessarily more complicated.
For building on another IC… skip that.
The germans could never build navy there, and all others can move there.
You might like to add something like a “lend-lease” for Italy though, that Germany can give up to …say 8 IPCs … per turn to Italy and Italy can use that money as it sees fit.
For the Torpedo boats…
well, the Italians had crap subs, so if you want a new class of unit, i would make it that:
Italian Torpedoboat: (uses Sub counter), cost 6 IPCs, Move 2, Attack 3 (one time only, pick hit), Defense 1

[kyrial]

Mistabiggs that’s a really cool, thought out way to add Italy into the game in a way that I don’t think horribly upsets the Allies chance to still win. Heh, I have seen (and advised myself at times) the whole changing the tanks defense… my suggestion was to change German tanks so that they defend much better since historically the Germans (and Soviets later on) had very solid tanks. Since if the Russians are buying tanks, something has gone horribly wrong for the Axis, the team that really benefits from this is Germany because it allows them to chance having a territory defended by several tanks and not have to worry about an attack taking out the majority of their offensive weaponry.

For Syria-Iraq maybe just leave the territory Italian but not occupied to suggest the influence and natural hostility to the British?

Quite a good sampling of Italian WWII history tho, not too many actually care so it’s nice to see some who have read up on it. Too bad for the Italian armed forces Mussolini wasn’t as good a commander as he was a bully…

[Grigoriy Ivanovitch]

@kyrial:

Too bad for the Italian armed forces Mussolini wasn’t as good a commander as he was a bully…

Probably better for the Allies, though. 8)

[dropkickjake]

@cystic:

@Grigoriy:

despite the now common belief that Italian war exercises involved practising throwing both hands in the air.

I thought that was the French? :-?

oh that’s not even funny anymore.
“Napoleon built the arc de triumphe, and the only armies to march triumphantly through it were the Germans and the Americans”.

how many tried (im being very serious here, not a jerk)

[MistaBiggs]

@F_alk:

I have nitpicking in my blood, so i hope you don’t mind if i comment a few things, mainly on historicalness.

Your comments are fine and welcome; however, I clearly stated the following before my post of Italian Rules:

@MistaBiggs:

Here’s my Italy Rules – keep in mind that this altered Map/Game will start a little earlier (to allow Italy more territories) and it won’t be completely “historically” accurate. Also, I have yet to test it out … so, the unit placement for the countries may need a little tweaking. But, this should be a good starter kit.

(Bold emphasis added)

Take these rules and edit to your likings … as with anything on this forum.

[Grigoriy Ivanovitch]

@dropkickjake:

@cystic:

@Grigoriy:

despite the now common belief that Italian war exercises involved practising throwing both hands in the air.

I thought that was the French? :-?

oh that’s not even funny anymore.
“Napoleon built the arc de triumphe, and the only armies to march triumphantly through it were the Germans and the Americans”.

how many tried (im being very serious here, not a jerk)

What, to march through France? well, let’s see, since when? I know the Germans have been there a couple times, the Americans kicked them out twice, in 1815 the Grand Alliance beat Napoleon at Waterloo, that may not have been in France, but there were British, Prussians, and Austrians. I think.

[dropkickjake]

since napoleon

when cc said that, i realized that i wasnt sure how many other countries tried….

[UKcommander]

I know that you all are probably going to think that these are very bad, but here goes.

Sothern Europe(Value increased to 10)- Infantry-5, Armor-2, Fighter-1, Bomber-1, Antiaircraft-1, Battleship-2, Transport-2, Industrial Complex-1

Algeria-(Value increased to 3) Infantry-2

Libya(Value increased to 3. I know that the Italians didn’t actually own Libya, but it’s just a territory I gave them so the board wouldn’t have to be changed to much.) Infantry-3, Armor-1

The Italian player won’t have much fun because they only can help with the defense of Germany, the assault of Karelia, and the taking of Africa. I tried this out once and the Italians took pretty much all of Africa and I believe, Karelia.

[kyrial]

Italian divisions were also highly undermanned and undersupplied with even basic weapons such as anti-tank guns… I don’t have my books with me right now, but if I remember correctly even Switzerland was better equipped on a per-man basis than the Italians. Also, most Italian divisions were really at 1/2 strength but they were called divisions so as to make it look like they were much better than they actually were.

The key to any setup of Italy is that you have to realise that Italy was woefully underprepared for this war…perhaps given another 10 years they might have been ready (or even something like a mid-40’s), but in 1939 they were just totally unprepared.

Sothern Europe(Value increased to 10)

Hehe you knew you were going to get a bit of a ribbing for this one UKcommander :D

Putting the Italian productivity on par with Germany and above England (and Japan) is I think a bit too much. It’s true that you might have to do something like that in order to give them a fighting chance, but then again that’s what history shows: they were not economically prepared and to give them that advantage is making the game historically inaccurate. I mean I know the game isn’t accurate beyond the setup of the board (with Japan coming into Africa shortly and what not and other fun things) but again Italy was just not ready and I think adding them in should show this. Just my thoughts :)

[UKcommander]

Yeah, but it’s pretty much the only way to give Italy a fighting chance unless you add Siciliy, the Italian precense in Africa and Syria-Iraq, or increasing the African territories to an I.P.C. value of a bit too much. Any thoughts?

[Guerrilla Guy]

translation: Italy IMO can only effectively be added to AaAE…

[MistaBiggs]

I disagree – I think ANY country can be “effectively” added (with not to much editing). I’m one of the ones who believes it’s just a game – HAVE FUN!! It doesn’t have to be 100% historical to be fun.

[Guerrilla Guy]

@MistaBiggs:

I disagree – I think ANY country can be “effectively” added (with not to much editing). I’m one of the ones who believes it’s just a game – HAVE FUN!! It doesn’t have to be 100% historical to be fun.

True…But add china as well :wink: … and french resistance forces in north Africa and Britian…

[UKcommander]

Does anyone know of a good setup for the French resistance forces? Thanks :D :D :D .

[Guerrilla Guy]

mainly it (french resistance Force) would have to kick in when Normandy happens… When the Allies land you roll a die for every unit in Western Europe… every 1 rolled means they have tied up a unit and the Defender chooses which units cannot preform defense during the duration of the attack… if Western Europe is taken then those units are destroyed… if the german player wins and those units are put back into play…

how does it sound…?

[UKcommander]

Sounds good but a little confusing GG. I don’t think I want to get World at War because from what I’ve heard it does usually take all day. Sorry.