@Curtmungus your honor of being more famous than me is quite deserved. I salute you.
Affirmative Action
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that logic does not follow. what im saying is, jews may consider themselves a culture, but either way they are a religion, straight up
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that logic does not follow. what im saying is, jews may consider themselves a culture, but either way they are a religion, straight up
the fact that they are a religion does not change the fact that they are in minority as far as ethincity is concerned.
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that logic does not follow. what im saying is, jews may consider themselves a culture, but either way they are a religion, straight up
I know it does not follow. I was merely saying the same type of thing you were saying about Jews, only about you to show you how utterly ridiculous that statement is.
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The point of what I said, no offense to anyone, was that if you look on a census, for example, Judaism would be listed under religion. It’s what the government states that was the point, and affirmative action doesn’t apply to religions as far as I know.
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@Grigoriy:
The point of what I said, no offense to anyone, was that if you look on a census, for example, Judaism would be listed under religion. It’s what the government states that was the point, and affirmative action doesn’t apply to religions as far as I know.
People who understand Judaism know that it’s more than a religion, which is my point. It is a religion, a nationality, a culture and much more.
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I know, and my point is, in reference to this topic, and following Grigory, it is still a religion, whatever else it might be
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I know, and my point is, in reference to this topic, and following Grigory, it is still a religion, whatever else it might be
So how does that overrule the fact that it is more than that? You cannot classify it into one of these categories without changing the religion, which cannot be done.
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Grig and Janus1 - the angle that i’m getting from you would be akin to saying “well, afro-americans from the deep south are Baptists. As they are Baptists, then the fact that they are Afro-American is immaterial because of their religion”.
Really, you are missing the boat on this, i think. -
You can’t forget that some minority groups suffer because of things like this. For example, the minority group I am in, the Jews, are not included in Affirmative Action or in any of these programs because Jews have been able to succeed without them. Also, when universities/colleges start assigning places based on the demographics of the American population then surely Jews suffer in trying to get into universities/collegesas we make up only 2% of the US population, yet we have made up the majority of university graduates (over 60% at Yale for example).
affirmative action
n.
A policy or a program that seeks to redress past discrimination through active measures to ensure equal opportunity, as in education and employment.This ought to be the end of this section of discussion. If the Jews wanted affirmative action, it would probably actually hurt them more then it aided them.
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@Grigoriy:
You can’t forget that some minority groups suffer because of things like this. For example, the minority group I am in, the Jews, are not included in Affirmative Action or in any of these programs because Jews have been able to succeed without them. Also, when universities/colleges start assigning places based on the demographics of the American population then surely Jews suffer in trying to get into universities/collegesas we make up only 2% of the US population, yet we have made up the majority of university graduates (over 60% at Yale for example).
affirmative action
n.
A policy or a program that seeks to redress past discrimination through active measures to ensure equal opportunity, as in education and employment.This ought to be the end of this section of discussion. If the Jews wanted affirmative action, it would probably actually hurt them more then it aided them.
true.
just trying to correct some mis-information. -
Grig and Janus1 - the angle that i’m getting from you would be akin to saying “well, afro-americans from the deep south are Baptists. As they are Baptists, then the fact that they are Afro-American is immaterial because of their religion”.
No, because you said afro-americans, referring to a race. Judaism is not a race. Reread your statement, it is in no way the same.
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Grig and Janus1 - the angle that i’m getting from you would be akin to saying “well, afro-americans from the deep south are Baptists. As they are Baptists, then the fact that they are Afro-American is immaterial because of their religion”.
No, because you said afro-americans, referring to a race. Judaism is not a race. Reread your statement, it is in no way the same.
Ok, so Judaism is not a race, however nearly all Jews are. They’re called Hebrews, and Judaism is as intertwined in them as their genetic code, and from a metaphysical standpoint, possibly more.
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@cystic:
Ok, so Judaism is not a race, however nearly all Jews are. They’re called Hebrews, and Judaism is as intertwined in them as their genetic code, and from a metaphysical standpoint, possibly more.
OK, I can agree with you on this, but is it not possible to become a Jew even though you have not been born Jewish? That should have been my original argument, that Jews don’t count for affirmative action because it is possible to change that. Probably not for those who were born into it, but it is possible. Skin color you can’t change. (unless you’re Michael Jackson) :lol:
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Hebrews are not a race either, they are simply an ethnic group. There is a difference. Furthermore, like Grigory said, you can become a Jew, or renounce your Judaism, NatFedMike has.
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Hebrews are not a race either, they are simply an ethnic group. There is a difference. Furthermore, like Grigory said, you can become a Jew, or renounce your Judaism, NatFedMike has.
Judaims is not a race, you are right about that. You cannot leave Judaism once you are in, no matter what you try to do to renounce it. Converting into Judaism takes at least a year or two if not longer and is a very hard and rigorous process. I’m sure that it took at least that long for Michael Jackson to change his skin colour.
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Michael Jackson shouldnt be counted into any racial, or ethnic group. As Robin Williams said, you have to pick a race first. And also, you can leave Judaism. Its not anything in your blood, if you renounce your judaism, you are no longer a jew, as simple as that. If you renounce your amishness (you get the point), you are no longer amish. Judaism is a culture along those lines, but you can leave them.
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“You cannot leave Judaism once you are in, no matter what you try to do to renounce it.”
hahah well guess what Emu i did :P
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Anyways…… back on topic
Does a poor white man get Affirmative Action? Does a rich “ethnic” man Affirmative Action?
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Affirmative action, hmmm, nice idea: with a quick law we fix a misrepresentation in societies. Shame it doesnt work that way, because for society to benefit, the principle ‘the best people in the right positions’ cannot be put out of action.
I think what we are lacking is some trust. if some ethnicity is misrepresented we should be confident that this is only because a fair selection process has come to the conclusion this is the best people for the right job at the moment. So the real question is: how can we be confident?
We wont fix this problem with affirmative action laws, but by putting loads of money into schools, so that all students are educated to a roughly equal standard. and by this i dont mean the lowest common denominater. if access the the best schools is fair and open, and all students are in a position to show their best. that is the best way to bring social justice and realise equal opportunities.
in my mind at least.
Laters,
Hans
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I’m sorry to inform you Hanso that money won’t by itself fix the problem.
Look at D.C. It spends more money per student than anywhere in the country and has a poor record. It takes more than money to teach kids.It takes good parents, good teachers, and a student who wants to learn to fix the problem!!!
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