Madagascar SZ

[morten200]

Groan … I´m still confused. You can make combat moves without going into combat???

The so-called “shuck-shuck” strategy relies on loading and unloading in non-combat does it not?

[Guest]

Yeah, it does. The problem is that during non-combat it says you can move/load or move/unload. It says nothing about moving then loading then unloading. You must move transports during combat if you are going to do an amphib assult even though the transports themselves don’t do combat. So yes, in that case you can do combat moves without doing combat.

They make a special note of bridging but never mention moving the transport during bridging. If you can move your transport 2 spaces and load then unload during non-combat, then why all the special attention paid to the concept of bridging?

The book makes examples of a transport (pg 16 bottom middle column) in the UK sea zone dropping of to Norway AND Western Europe provided they controlled both, so then this must be a non-combat movement as you can’t put units in a friendly territory during combat movement unless ‘blitzing’ even then you move it through to the territory being attacked. So, you either loaded during combat and did nothing else, then unloaded during non-combat OR they loaded and unloaded during non-combat. Clear as mud yet? Page 21 Section #6, bottom middle column goes on to say empty transports can move to load, loaded transports can move to unload, provided my grasp of the English language is good enough, since it is the only non-computer language I speak it better be!

BB

[Xi]

@F_alk:

… This means, you can pick up, move, pick up, move again as a Combat Move, and unload during Noncombat Move.

I must disagree.
In my Second Edition Rules A&A Game Play Manual (with no applicable changes in the Rules Clarification[Third Ed.] pages, p.21, Column 1, Para. 1, it states “… you can move … units that you DID NOT MOVE (M. Bradley’s emphasis) during Action 2-Combat Movement.”

[Guest]

@Xi:

@F_alk:

… This means, you can pick up, move, pick up, move again as a Combat Move, and unload during Noncombat Move.

“… you can move … units that you DID NOT MOVE (M. Bradley’s emphasis) during Action 2-Combat Movement.”

Sure, i unload during NonCombat only, all the moving (and loading) has to be done in Combat Move. I thought i wrote that, (and if you read carefully, you should notice i did ;) )

[Xi]

WDF?

Second Edition Rules A&A Game Play Manual (with no applicable changes in the Rules Clarification[Third Ed.] pages, p.21, Column 1, Para. 1, it states “… you can move … units that you DID NOT MOVE (M. Bradley’s emphasis) during Action 2-Combat Movement.”

F_k,
My understanding of this rule is that …
If you moved it during Combat Movement,
then you CANNOT move it during
Noncombat Movement.

If you picked up a unit for transport and
moved said unit during Combat Movement,
then, according to the rules,
you CANNOT move or offload said unit
during Noncombat Movement.

===============================
I realize that I poste incorrectly on another
forum here about this yesterday. ARRRRRRGH!

[Guest]

I emphasize in your post

@Xi:

My understanding of this rule is that …
If you moved it during Combat Movement,
then you CANNOT move it during
Noncombat Movement.

If you picked up a unit for transport and
moved said unit during Combat Movement,
then, according to the rules,
you CANNOT move or offload said unit
during Noncombat Movement.

So,
according to the rules, you cannot move units in NCM that moved in CM.
We agree that far.
I disagree that “load/unload” is “move-equivalent”. Therefor, a unit that moved in CM can still be allowed to load/unload in NCM.
That’s what i think is correct and makes sense.

[cystic crypt]

@F_alk:

I emphasize in your post

@Xi:

My understanding of this rule is that …
If you moved it during Combat Movement,
then you CANNOT move it during
Noncombat Movement.

If you picked up a unit for transport and
moved said unit during Combat Movement,
then, according to the rules,
you CANNOT move or offload said unit
during Noncombat Movement.

you are correct. You may bring a trn loaded with inf to a battle in the E-MED (vs. the british sub), and either use it as cannon fodder, or if it survives the battle, it may unload into EGY. As it has no attack die (i.e. “0”) it does not participate in the battle per se, but may always receive an errant shell.

So,
according to the rules, you cannot move units in NCM that moved in CM.
We agree that far.
I disagree that “load/unload” is “move-equivalent”. Therefor, a unit that moved in CM can still be allowed to load/unload in NCM.
That’s what i think is correct and makes sense.

[BigBlocky]

I think CC might be onto something here. It’s been 17 years since I played the original Axis and Allies game by Nova, but I could have sworn we had to have twice as many transports as we do now because we couldn’t ‘bridge’. Mind you, we also played that you needed a transport to get from Egypt to Syria.

Everything under page 16 ‘transport movement’ is under the umbrella of combat movement. So, you can (load, move, move unload) as easily as (move, move, load, unload) as easily as (load, unload). You can even (load, move, move) or (move, move) but if you do either then the transport is finished and cannot then do any loading or unload just as surly as if it had unload 1 of 2 INF for combat, ie, it could then NOT unload the other INF during non-combat movement.

You could load a transport during combat, as long as it does not move it has not moved, it seems a tautology but it bears repeating. Loading is not moving and if it has not moved it has not moved.

So, if it ain’t combat movement then obviously you turn to page 21, Section 6 for Naval units. For any transports that have not moved the following applies: Anything that falls into this category {Empty transports, transports loaded with cargo} can be moved to friendly coastal territories to either load or unload.

This allows 4 potentially legal combinations:

A) Empty transport can load
B) Empty transport can unload (Can be safely ruled out)
C) transports loaded with cargo can load (Well, if it has 1 INF sure, 1 more INF)
D) transports loaded with cargo can unload. (Sounds good to me.)

Nowhere does it say you can load AND unload during combat movement except under combat movement when bridging is described. Since they give an example of bridging while NOT moving during non-combat it must be legal.

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[Xi]

Eureka!
If you have the A&A game play manual (Second Ed.) look on
p.24, col. 1, para. 3(AREA 2 COMBAT SPHERE) and
p.25, col. 1, para. 6 (AREA 2 COMBAT SPHERE ACTION) to
p.25, col. 2, para. 8 (AREA 2 COMBAT SPHERE ACTION.)

That settles the LOAD-MOVE-MOVE-UNLOAD argument (at least.)

Dagnabbit! I was so lookin’ forward to trying A&A with the
NO LOAD-UNLOAD('cept for bridging) on the same turn rule.

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As I’ve said before … “read the rules” … it helps.

[BigBlocky]

I don’t think there is any doubt that during combat you can load, move, move and unload or move, move, load and unload.

On page 26 it shows a non-combat movement whereby they show a japanese transport loading and moving then unloading. This seems to contradict the language of load and move or move and load during non-combat.

BB