I went when I was really young. I think I mainly visited resorts and amusement parks.
Marxism
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“Yes, but don’t teachers not work very hard in many instances because they have a guarenteed paycheck from the state?”
And yet there are people working very hard for their pay. It’s true that some teachers won’t work as hard. And other times I’ve seen teachers passionate about their subject (we all know they’re not in it for the money, right?). But is this due to having a guaranteed paycheck or lack of work ethic? Of course the opinion is very subjective. I’ve seen a history teacher at my school win a “Teacher of the Year Award” when all he did was show movies in class! Communism teaches a strong work ethic from an early start.
“Because people want mroe than the essentials. People want more than others. You can’t make people fully provided for…like a spoiled child, the more a person has the more they want. That desire keeps greed and selfishness out there. People will always look out for themselves, becuase people care more about themself.”
You are assuming everybody will want more. There are people in life who are content with what they are. As for their “greed” and “selfishness,” it’s interesting to see how in some Native American cultures an extremely greedy and self-centered act would be to give all of his belongings away. In capitalist countries, little children quickly learn to share and cooperate, but they are later taught to take more than they need compete viciously in “the real world.”
“The world isn’t linux. I could say “well a communes work, so communism must work.” that is a small example and red hat and other companies make money off linux. What is next, a group project in 5th grade is communism too?”
I provide this an example of communist practices within a capitalist society. Imagine this sort of cooperative sharing that is favorable under a communist society. The chief question remains, are the programmers paid for the code in Linux? Would they be inclined to work even more when there aren’t bills to be paid for? And if 5th graders from all over the world got together and worked to create a powerful commercial quality product (working for nothing and distributed the product as free), yes, I would call it a very communistic approach.
“I debate that is it next to impossible to do so…just as impossible than a perfect capitalist society.”
“In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.” - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut. Therefore, I can never answer your question completely and surely. Likewise, you can’t say that a communist society won’t work. Never has a nation been truly communist, so until that happens, we won’t know for sure. However, what I can use is evidence and logic as a supporting factor in this argument. Perhaps another 50 years should do the trick?
“Crude form of communism? Not exactly communism is it? If my dad share s tools in the shop, is that communism? No. Its sharing. I have read the book “We” and it says the same thing. that communism is part of evolution. Indeed it is, but man is not the being for it.”
By crude form of communism, I mean these tribes were unjust form as far as the women are concerned, performed a large amount of drudgery, ect. Does you Dad own the shop? Does he own the tools? Chances are it’s not communism, though maybe a very, very crude form of it.
“I have read the book “We” and it says the same thing. that communism is part of evolution. Indeed it is, but man is not the being for it.”
Again, how can you know for sure? Do you think peasants thought they would escape the chains of feudalism? Equal treatment of man and women? The Divinity of Kings? When man first walked the earth, would he not some day be walking on the face of the moon, the bottom of the sea, or the highest mountain merely because “he was not the being for it.”
”Yet we have a trade deficit…makes you think eh?”
A lot of this can be contributed to America’s dependence on foreign oil (perhaps another topic?). A lot of it comes from manufacturing countries that were once foreign markets (ie Made in China).
“Communism failed in North Korea, China, Vietnam, and Cuba. Though they make considerbly less money than America, they make more with capitalism. Haven’t you noticed that they are only “communist” in name?”
Are you asking me, did I even think these countries were truly communist (more socialistic) in the first place? Of course not. Most of these countries had shady or corrupt leaders during their revolution. Like I said many times, a true communist society has never existed as far these countries are concerned. However, the system of democracy Cuba uses does impress me.
”There are always new products and people keep eating. Demand never dissappears.”
You are confusing necessities with commodities. There still exists a huge demand for houses for the homeless, or food for the hungry, or medicine for the sick - but for a capitalist, demand only means anything if it is backed up with hard cash. Capitalism gets itself in this mess because it produces for profit and not for need. Doesn’t everybody want to eat? I would think so. However, little more than 3% of the world can be used for farmable surface topsoil (the rest of the world being overpopulated, in the ocean, or where the soil is too poor to farm). Much of this land lies in the United States. Did you know if America really wanted to feed the world, it could? The American breadbasket by far has enough fertile soil and the means to produce foodstuffs for the entire planet. So why don’t we? Easy, capitalism. You see by over producing, American gain prices would and profits would be cut.
“No…people want some sort of promise of betterment. Most people won’t.”
Promise of betterment? Bonus! Looks like almost everybody would be benefited under a communist society. Ahead of whom? Under capitalism, people get ahead of other people. Many poor and working class people in this country consider putting food on the table being ahead of the game. Under socialism, and eventually communism, all people get ahead together with basic necessities and luxuries.
“But doesn’t that show you how unrealistic a true communistic society is? The best means of comparing are farm communes and of the sort…wow, they lasted real long…”
Lets take a look at democracy. You say these communist countries failed once (and it wasn’t even communism), and it fell because of humankind’s greedy nature. When the Democracy of Athens and the Roman Republic failed, people said they failed because of humankind’s stupid nature. Here we have another lesson to learn: Just because an idea failed once does not mean it always will. Also, maybe this time we will not wait 1,820 years to realize this. And many such tribes lasted for many generations, that was until the white man came…
“If half of the worlds industrialized societies became communist, i bet the capitalist ones would over power them. So it would have to be world wde, and again, how would that last???”
Hmmm… is it because capitalist societies have to overpower other countries and take these foreign markets by force? You are telling me the defining sign that capitalism had exhausted its potential to develop human society. Rest, assured communism will last, a very, very long time. :wink:
“And was it right?”
I don’t know, was it? The animal was provided for, cared for, fed, provided shelter, and often loved in exchange for work.
“They are not very smart…a computer that can take place of ALL human work would be. As long as computers exist not smart enough to do EVERYTHING, man must do work…and that would be a hell of a lot of computers to fix.”
How often does your computer break down and you have to take it to a computer repair store to fix it? So far, I haven’t with this compute I used (and it’s lasted me many, many years). Granted, there would still be a lot of computers to fix,but we would have the trained workers to do it. Also, I didn’t say computers would take the place of ALL human work. However, what they can do is speed that process along.
“Your computer is not as advanced as the computer in your skull.”
Tell me, what will happen to computers in a capitalistic society when they will be as “advanced” as the brain in my skull? Will they not be enslaved and exploited for profit in a capitalistic society?
“Maybe French computers…”
Haha. :lol:
“For now. A computer that can fully replace a man would be. We already invented computers that run of protein strands…it is just a matter of time until we can emulate a brain”
God hopes this will never happen. 8)
“i would want to be a history teacher.”
Are you in it simply because of the money? History teachers aren’t the highest paid people in the world.
“By that theory factories will be producing machines, selling them to more machines. The human market will continue to exist.”
Are you saying that factories will actually PRODUCE machines in order to SELL to them to other MACHINES? Wow, suddenly the machines are the ones being the potential consumer. :P
“They do, yet we find ourselves having “busy”: days, correct? Yet a lot of people commit suicide because they are unhappy. Why couldn’t we be happier with t he simpler things in life?”
I’m a simple man with complex taste. :)
“People still work 14 hours a day…what computer reduces their work? Now we can do a lot more work in our time, but in return, there is more work to be done…unless everybody decided “you know what? Who needs advances in technology and such, I am happy the way I am.” Thats isn’t going to happen.”
Tell me the job and I will tell you how to fix it. Also, why do you keep using computers? I was referring more to machines. Computes are programmable electronic machine that performs high-speed mathematical or logical operations or that assembles, stores, correlates, or otherwise processes information. Logically, computers can’t be used in every situation. However, let’s talk about word sheets: Does typing save me time over traditional pen and pencil writing? Do user input graphs on excel help me save time over traditional pen and color pencil graphing? Does the spell check utility help me correct spelling mistakes? Does the A&A Dice Rolling and Odds Calculator program help me save time over traditional dice rolling? Okay the last one wasn’t really job related unless I become a professional A&A player. :D
“Well capitalist could control them too, but at that point they would probably become customers.”
Hmm… force-fed computers? But really, I like to see your computer customer idea in action! If I create a computer can I program it to be my faithful customer?
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“can a man make something better than himself?”
“Man can never create unto himself to the image of what is better than him. From the moment, he will be filled with such bitter envy of his creation that his rage will suffice in destroying it.” - Primera
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@TG:
“can a man make something better than himself?”
“Man can never create unto himself to the image of what is better than him. From the moment, he will be filled with such bitter envy of his creation that his rage will suffice in destroying it.” - Primera
“Man can!”-HortenFlyingWing
now that’s a quote!
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"And yet there are people working very hard for their pay. It’s true that some teachers won’t work as hard. And other times I’ve seen teachers passionate about their subject (we all know they’re not in it for the money, right?). But is this due to having a guaranteed paycheck or lack of work ethic? Of course the opinion is very subjective. I’ve seen a history teacher at my school win a “Teacher of the Year Award” when all he did was show movies in class! Communism teaches a strong work ethic from an early start. "
So does it? I can say feudalism does the same thing. A Communist system with our society and our race would not keep a hard work ethic without a competition of sorts. What reason is there to work hard if you cannot better yourself, just “the whole human race.” Now don’t get me wrong, i’m not trying to sound selfish, but how about the billions who are? Our society has to change, not our economic system.
“You are assuming everybody will want more.”
And everyone will and does…no one is ever fully provided for or Bill Gates would seel all of his stocks abd sit back.
“There are people in life who are content with what they are. As for their “greed” and “selfishness,” it’s interesting to see how in some Native American cultures an extremely greedy and self-centered act would be to give all of his belongings away.”
Those pacific plains indians? I forgot the name of the ceremony, (something that starts with a P.) They gave a lot of way, but the next guy always had to give more, if I remember what I learned correctly. And people act nice and buy each other dinners…now is that always selflessness? Content with what they are? You are not very content with capitalism, are you???
more later
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“ So does it? I can say feudalism does the same thing. A Communist system with our society and our race would not keep a hard work ethic without a competition of sorts. What reason is there to work hard if you cannot better yourself, just “the whole human race.” Now don’t get me wrong, i’m not trying to sound selfish, but how about the billions who are? Our society has to change, not our economic system.”
There will always be competition. What you’re thinking about is more of the capitalist notion of man vs man. However, what about man vs disease, starvation, building a better future, nature, and poverty against other things? Of course the idea of only bettering ourselves (and maybe those around us), but a lot of this is due to regionalization. When America first started up, it was just thought of a bunch of member states, not as a whole nation (we’ll not until the war of “Northern Aggression.” But that’s a different story 8) ). That’s why for communist to achieve a better place on Earth, it must be global.
“And everyone will and does…no one is ever fully provided for or Bill Gates would seel all of his stocks abd sit back.”
If I was Bill Gates, I would be doing that (we’ll at least far off in one of those remote islands). 8)
“Those pacific plains indians? I forgot the name of the ceremony, (something that starts with a P.) They gave a lot of way, but the next guy always had to give more, if I remember what I learned correctly. And people act nice and buy each other dinners…now is that always selflessness? Content with what they are? You are not very content with capitalism, are you???”
(Not sure if was the Plains Indians)
Here comes the selfishness, people who gave more were looked upon as being “better” (causing reverse greed) compared to those who gave less. Of course we see a form of this today. Two prideful neighbors work in different jobs. One losses his job. The other offers a job to the neighbor where he works. The man rejects. This is because his own pride couldn’t stomach the offer and it would always seem to him that the other man was taking pity him and trying to make himself look better. Ask any Native American on a reservation if he would be more content with his situation right now or if things would’ve been better before the white man came. Go ahead, I dare ya. :wink: Did I ever say I was content? Don’t worry, I will be. -
it was called a “potlach”!
"here will always be competition. What you’re thinking about is more of the capitalist notion of man vs man. However, what about man vs disease, starvation, building a better future, nature, and poverty against other things? Of course the idea of only bettering ourselves (and maybe those around us), but a lot of this is due to regionalization. When America first started up, it was just thought of a bunch of member states, not as a whole nation (we’ll not until the war of “Northern Aggression.” But that’s a different story ). That’s why for communist to achieve a better place on Earth, it must be global. "
and it is next to impossible with the diversity of the world’s cultures that, that will happen. Not only that, I find that the system is flawed ebcause how man inherintly acts. (spell.)
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it was called a “potlach”!
"here will always be competition. What you’re thinking about is more of the capitalist notion of man vs man. However, what about man vs disease, starvation, building a better future, nature, and poverty against other things? Of course the idea of only bettering ourselves (and maybe those around us), but a lot of this is due to regionalization. When America first started up, it was just thought of a bunch of member states, not as a whole nation (we’ll not until the war of “Northern Aggression.” But that’s a different story ). That’s why for communist to achieve a better place on Earth, it must be global. "
and it is next to impossible with the diversity of the world’s cultures that, that will happen. Not only that, I find that the system is flawed ebcause how man inherintly acts. (spell.)
i think another problem with all systems (besides “Man’s” inherent nature - be it greed, lazyness, etc.) is they all will ultimately require the exchange of some kind of currency. Maybe this is because of the nature i mentioned, but for a capitalist the currency is money. For a communist it will be something else - power, status, SOMETHING. Even utopia will never be utopia - not if there is a rock, a seashell, or something around that will establish a pecking order of some kind - that will require the exchange of SOME kind of currency. I’d rather be the guy who applies suntan lotion to the hot women in the utopian society, but who do i have to screw in order to avoid being the “sanitation engineer”?
Communism requires the use of a currency - it’s just more subtle than capitalism, and does not provide for the dreams of exceeding one’s reach. -
sorry - the above was mine.
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“and it is next to impossible with the diversity of the world’s cultures that, that will happen. Not only that, I find that the system is flawed ebcause how man inherintly acts. (spell.)”
Easy. Stage a massive alien invasion totally propagated by the government (be sure to make them look invincible). World unites together to defeat common enemy. Leave door open for more alien attacks, deflecting prejudice to aliens and forcing man to work together to overcome cultural differences. Inherently? Inherently I would like to take my shotgun and blow your head off. (j/k :wink: , but stick with my example) Well why don’t I? First there’s a little thing we like to call self-restraint and pride in knowing you have it. Then we have morals and common good and decency. Then we have laws and the punishments in case they are broken. (and believe me, only the threat of getting expelled from school stopped me in getting into fights on more than one occasion).
“think another problem with all systems (besides “Man’s” inherent nature - be it greed, lazyness, etc.) is they all will ultimately require the exchange of some kind of currency.”
Under communism there is a free exchange of goods.
“I’d rather be the guy who applies suntan lotion to the hot women in the utopian society, but who do i have to screw in order to avoid being the “sanitation engineer”?”
Sanitation engineer? Is this the pc way for janitor? Don’t worry, we’ll have machines by then who can do that. Wait…Heck we already have self cleaning bathrooms! Oh and lotion on hot women is more of a hobby.
“utopia will never be utopia”
I agree. If you want a utopia, die and go to heaven. And even chances are you’ll probably get bored and it would no longer seem like a utopia. It’s all a matter of time.
“Communism requires the use of a currency - it’s just more subtle than capitalism, and does not provide for the dreams of exceeding one’s reach.”
Those evil communists! :roll:
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this has so moved to other topics!
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You know what I just realized? This is probably one of the only topics that hasn’t gone off topic! Behold, the power of communism! :o
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