I went when I was really young. I think I mainly visited resorts and amusement parks.
Prime Factor
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I’m with TG on that thing about Bush being a idiot because of his beliefs in religion being a part of the nation. The sad part of it is that its true, at least in schools because ever since the beginning of the 20th century there had always been conflicts between public schools and teachers or parents over things like teaching the theory of evolution in schools which they wouldn’t because it was against the word of the bible or something along those lines. Then we move along to about the '50’s or '60’s where atheist parents or parents of different religions were fighting to have prayer removed from schools because reciting it was against their beliefs(atheists by having to pray to god) or because it wasnt their god(case of muslims or most any other religion than christian). Worse yet, some of the hardcore christians have, even to this day, continued to fight to put prayer in the public school system even though it was removed since it was a conflict between the state and church.
I’m not saying religion is bad or anything, I’m just trying to show how the government had tried to mix religion with state which shouldn’t be done not just because of my belief that is shouldn’t but because its in our Constitition that church and state are to be separated.
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“I’m with TG on that thing about Bush being a idiot because of his beliefs in religion being a part of the nation”
name one example whe he signed legislation because of religion?
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“If God loved any Country, he had to love…wait, all countries suck!”
Nah, I think you’re forgetting a little place called Lesotho. :wink: (We’ll maybe the Vatican if you’re Catholic)
“people belive in God because they were brought up to”
“Also many people disbelieve in God as another tool to rebel against their parents”Nah, my parents are Atheist and I’m not exactly rebelling against them. Of course, I consider owning your own place, cooking your own meals, accepting your own responsibilities, and paying your own bills rebelling.
“theory of evolution in schools. Then we move along to about the '50’s or '60’s where atheist parents or parents of different religions were fighting to have prayer removed from schools because reciting it was against their beliefs(atheists by having to pray to god) or because it wasnt their god(case of muslims or most any other religion than christian). Worse yet, some of the hardcore christians have, even to this day, continued to fight to put prayer in the public school system even though it was removed since it was a conflict between the state and church.”
Well you can agree that things are changing for the better. 100 years ago, evolution was a big no-no in schools. Now it’s finally being taught as a legitimate form of science (though more in microevolution than macroevolution). Plus I don’t remember praying in any of the schools at my age (of course you’re allowed to, ie freedom of speech), so I say we’re finding a nice healthy medium between the two.
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"theory of evolution in schools. Then we move along to about the '50’s or '60’s where atheist parents or parents of different religions were fighting to have prayer removed from schools because reciting it was against their beliefs(atheists by having to pray to god) or because it wasnt their god(case of muslims or most any other religion than christian). "
they are all the same God.
You see, if someone was truly an atheist, or open minded, they wouldn’t care if they heard prayer…but the problem is that school prayer endorses religion and being “religious.” How would you like if your children went to a predominantly Muslim school (detroit maybe), and they had school prayer? Would you want Islam being endorsed? And when religion is endorsed, extreme interpretations follow.
I’m pro prayer though.
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@cystic:
people belive in God because they were brought up to
Sound like Richard Dawkins analogy (religion is a virus)
so is patriotism, beliefs about education, economies, just about anything. Also many people disbelieve in God as another tool to rebel against their parents. Too simplistic.
… i did’nt say otherwise, i just said it was looking like the analogy made by Richard Dawkins…
About a tool against parent, it can go on the other side
- People believe because they are too conformist
- & People don’t believe because they are too non-conformist (in the sence they reject everything without any logical reason).
Still… religion is very present in more conformist society.
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if the majority was atheist, than in a conformist society, atheism would rule supreme.
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“You see, if someone was truly an atheist, or open minded, they wouldn’t care if they heard prayer…”
Exactly. My parents never got mad at me when I said grace on Thanksgiving (well that’s not exactly religious, but you get the picture. :wink: )
“I’m pro prayer though.”
I’m for it too (optional of course). It may or may not work, but you be surprised to see how much stress it relieves and you do feel happy inside. :)
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if the majority was atheist, than in a conformist society, atheism would rule supreme.
that is certain
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@TG:
“You see, if someone was truly an atheist, or open minded, they wouldn’t care if they heard prayer…”
Exactly. My parents never got mad at me when I said grace on Thanksgiving (well that’s not exactly religious, but you get the picture. :wink: )
“I’m pro prayer though.”
I’m for it too (optional of course). It may or may not work, but you be surprised to see how much stress it relieves and you do feel happy inside. :)
I wonder if prayer is supposed to be like meditation. I thought you were supposed to have no thoughts when you meditate.
On the plus side, prayer does make you feel good, and it helps you sleep (among one other thing ;) ).
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Nah, meditation is more of a stage of heightened enlightenment. I wouldn’t exactly call prayer an outer body experience. :roll:
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they are all the same God.
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I’m pro prayer though.Then you would accept a muslim prayer in the classroom? I mean, it’s all the same god anyway.
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I’m sure I would…
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Now we’re getting to the real issue. Now we have no prayer in public schools. Say tomorrow, the law changed. Who’s prayer shall we recite? Will the Christians allow time for Muslim prayer? Will it be majority rule? Is this fair to the minority? I’d say no. This is the real issue our law makers are facing. Satisfy the Catholics and and the Jews might take offense. OK, lets hit the middle ground. Would all groups endorse a private silent prayer for each student? I’d buy that even with atheistic beliefs. But the real question is : will this compromise be enough???
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it would depend on the communittee. Some might call this giving the nod to plualists, depending on their degree of conservatism. The atheist crowd (what’s that woman’s name? it’s irish, i’m pretty sure) might consider this an affront to their belief that it’s inappropriate to pray to anyone in a public school.
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Am I wrong on this, but isn’t prayer supposed to be a personal? I mean, what use is it for the whole class to be saying the same prayer? Also I thought it was suppose to be silent or just a whisper, since only God will hear it. That’s the way I’ve been brought up to practice it.
But for a more pressing issue, today the Supreme Court declared the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional! That’s right, you can’t say the Pledge in schools anymore because atheistic sophist complain it uses the words, “under God.” I mean I was okay with this being optional (I even exercised this right myself), but to just throw it out completely is wrong IMHO. And my parents are against this too, and they’re atheist (though more border line agnostic)! What do you guys think?
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Whoever the guest is, your right about that. It’s dependent on the religion of those on the school board or whatever type of commitee they make to address the issue. That was a tactic that the hardcore christian’s of this nation used to get prayer in some school districts around the nation, get themselves elected into the school board to gain a majority control of it and then they could easily vote in prayer.
And to answer the question if all groups would endorse a time for each student to pray silently: I don’t really know, if you ask me it depends on how extreme the people that would vote on this issue are with their religion or the atheists are with having other religions also getting to pray in school.
And that Pledge of Allegiance thing, I agree, its BS to get rid of it completely all because of the words Under God. I mean dont say that if you are Atheist or dont believe in that god then its not that difficult to not say 2 words…
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TGM - I don’t know why some people (in this case certain atheists) got to get that extreme. I never had an issue with the “under God” line in the Pledge of Allegiance. They’re missing the point of the Pledge. As I said earlier, if you want to believe in something, believe in how good your country can be…
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Yeah, to prohibit the Pledge of Allegiance is unjustifiable. I’m okay with it being optional, but to ban it in its entirety is unfair to those who want to recite it. Hopefully the Supreme Court will relent on the decision or at least replace “under God” with “under our Founding Fathers” or “under the Bald Eagle” or whatever else is politically correct.
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what if your religion states that you have to shout your prayers really loud, so that your god can hear it ? :)
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hey F_alk, isn’t this a freedom of speech issue?
you may have a point.
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