Reeeeaaaaallllllyyyyyy?
Cameron vs. Dezrtfish
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BTW: What’s the IPC victory condition for the Allies? I know it can’t be 84. - moses
You’re mostly right. Usually by the time the Axis have 84 Russia’s either fallen, or they are down to their last 18-10 IPC’s.
I don’t believe Allies have an IPC victory (and yes, 84 isn’t nearly enough). They get to take 2 capitals (but usually once Germany falls, it’s all over but the crying - unless you are Germany, and then you’re sometimes already crying). -
I wouldn’t say that once Germany falls, the Axis are finished. Japan can put up a feverish battle on the Allies if Germany had bought them the necessary time in holding out to the last Wermacht in Berlin. And even then, there are times were where you see small pockets of German resistance in Africa, the Mediterranean Fleet alongside the Japanese Imperial Fleet, and the Luftwaffe flying all the way to Japanese held territory to live to fight another day. :smile:
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Defeat for the Axis is inevitable, though, it takes sometime to finish them off. However, that is the funnest part playing as Japan when you know that defeat is inevitable and you just want to inflict as many casualties as possible and resist as long as possible.
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Well not always. Sometimes numbers lie. If Japan manages to knock out Russia in due time (right before or after the fall of Germany), it can still win the game even if the Allies have a higher IPC count. This is because Japan has the ability to move all its forces at once while US and UK are split.
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I’ve won after Germany falls via Economic victory with Japan a few times.
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Quick question, do you guys play with economic victory for the Axis and/or Allies? Usually I won’t since I don’t consider it a real victory. It’s like saying, I make more money than you, and therefore I win.
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Both usually for me, 110 for allies, 84 for Axis.
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Oh so it’s 110 IPCs for the Allies. Ok, thanks for clearing that up.
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Nice move. And it isn’t the first time where I seen a strong Japan go all out for Tech Rolls after Germany has fallen. Even then HBRs hardly show up, but the Hawaii-Alaska move you pulled off is an excellent way to use them.
However, even with three Allies, it is still possible to take Russia (provided most Allied forces are stacked in Germany, Eastern Europe, Kaarelia). The difficulty is holding Russia. Here’s my ideal situation (sorry for the repost):
Japan should position itself in is this:
a. Let Germany fall to the Russians (now in really life Patton and his 3rd should’ve taken Berlin… but that is a different story).
b. If you really want to damage the Allies in the long run, also let the Russians take Eastern Europe, Norway, and Ukraine on the previous turns, and on the same turn Berlin falls, let the Russians take Southern Europe.
c. On Japan’s turn, use your massive ARM, ftr, and inf force to storm Moscow! (again, not in real life… but it’s just a game)
d. Now by Japan taking Moscow, what have I done? Not only is Russia knocked out of the game, but most of Eastern Europe along with it. The former territories I told you about: Ukraine, EE, SE, Norway, and Germany have all effectively become worthless territories (not to mention Karelia and Caucasus until Japan can take them). Effectively I have robbed USA and UK of (3+3+2+6+10) 24 potential German IPCs!
e. Now this is the real killing joke. When I take a Capital that means I collect all the IPCs that the former owner of the captured capital has. Not only am stripping the Russian economy but the Germans IPCs too, which were previously under Russian control.
f. Spend all my money on tanks and infantry from which I can overrun the Allies.Again, this too requires a lot of luck, but this way I won’t run the risk of having to drive into tech rolls.
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One problem though Moses, I never would take Germany with Russia :smile: Always, Always, Always I take it with UK if possible, and otherwise I’d take with US.
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Well of course this is ideal. But it just goes to show how a smart Japanese player can prevail in the end. Even then, if Germany falls to UK and USA and Russia to Japan, the true battleground is for the Eastern Europe bloc and Africa. Remember, since the combined UK and USA force cannot attack at the same time, any Japanese player has the advantage. Imagine that, an Island Nation smaller than California going off to conquer the world. Sounds far fetched doesn’t it?
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Thats a good strategy but generaly Russia is playing safe, they dont have much choise. If russia is making mistakes the allies will soon loose.
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However, the certain eminence of being the Allies is that they can afford to trade causalities man for man. The Allies can out produce the Germans on all fronts, and sooner or later, something has to give. If the odds are even slightly in your favor, go for it. Just don’t try anything foolish like FinsterniS said.
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Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention. Was this with Russia Restricted? I assuming it was. If so, what was the bid? What and where did the Axis player get to place?
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so i didn’t really want to read all of the posts up to this point so i’m just going to respond to the very first one….whoever is playing as the allies either sucks major balls or had the worst rolling experience of anyone’s life…ever! How do you lose moscow by T2? Build a battleship and move all your units AWAY from moscow? that just doesn’t make sense…even with russia restricted you should barely lose karelia at all and should be able to at least stop the next onslaught…if that’s the championship game then i find all those that played laughable…h-…h-…well you all know what laughter sounds like.
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economic victory in turn 3 by the axis
Hard to believe but true I have never seen some one roll through Karalia like that on the first turn. My infantry did nothing on defence.
Good game Cameron
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Ouch that has got to hurt. Well good job anyways, Dert Note to self: Remind me never to play Cameron. Bad mojo…
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wotcha.
good game red.
if i’d known you’d started a thread on our game i’d have joined in earlier…i rather think dezrtfish wasn’t used to playing such an aggressive opponent. i’m not usually quite so aggressive but he made it more tempting than i’m used to…
incidentally my winning bid was 16 ipcs: 3 inf in manchuria and 2 inf in libya with 1 ipc save for the germans later use - like getting the 11 inf first turn.
quick note on my notation: if i say 0.x i mean x/6, not the perhaps more logical x/10. i’m just too lazy to convert…
i wasn’t sure i’d take karelia solidly enough but i also wasn’t used to seeing such a small force there [15 inf,1 arm,1 fit, aa defending against 9 inf, 7 arm, 1 bom attacking. 6.0 def hits avg to 5.4 hits avg at start, same number of units at start but my hits would lose him more firepower than his hits on me - the first few anyway ] - i figured i was being baited but i went in anyway, figuring that if it looked bad i could always run away before losing my tanks. the battle went fairly well [for me anyway] - i took it with 1 inf, 7 arm to defend it and the bomber heading to france to threaten the atlantic. too much really for him to take it back. i also took caucasus with the italians to add pressure from the west - he took the bait and diverted valuable defenders to take it back.
i figured for sure he’d pile everything he could into russia, but surprisingly he didn’t - instead he seemed intent on sending forces to help impede japan’s campaign - including his sole remaining russian fighter [all the air support in russia was british and american] which if he’d sent back to russia with his remaining adjacent forces would’ve held my hand and i’d have never dared attack russia… i can only assume that he didn’t expect me to continue to be so aggressive - even to the point of losing all my top units…moscow awaited [ 8 inf, 2 fit, 2 bom, aa defending against 1 inf, 9 arm, 4 fit, 1 bom attacking. 4.2 def hits vs 7.2 hits if i got lucky with the aa - more likely 6.5 assuming one downed fit. this time i’d be losing firepower faster but the initial advantage seemed enough to me - that and i was willing to take it all costs - i’ll gladly sacrifice all my armour and air to take russia - especially so early]. i knew i didn’t have to take it with much as i could reinforce it with japanese fighters. the battle went well for me [ taken with 3 arm, 3 fit, 1 bom] and suddenly i’ve got russia and 75 ipcs to burn!
japan did go pretty slowly, but they took the important indian factory - that’s probably what stalled them - i was really intent on getting india on the first turn because he built the factory there and so left myself a bit more daring in other battles - i got raped in china and pearl harbour… but even though i lost many units in asia i killed most of his forces regardless - so after taking russia asia was mine. 84 production and thus economic victory were inevitable.
i’ve noticed that a number of people dislike the economic victory rule. i must admit that i and indeed the rest of my initial playmates hated the rule at first - but it really is neccessary for an axis victory - i’m not sure how likely they are to win otherwise without a higher bid and without the game really dragging on. the game as it stands unmolested is just to heavily slanted in favour of the allies… i wonder if these same people have the same problem with the victory points in a&a: pacific…
regardless, i’m thankful for the game and will gladly accept a rematch! the wonderful thing about playing complete strangers is the completely strange ways they play! it’s far to easy to slip into a rut when playing incestually within the same gaming group… i’m just lucky i managed to change my style accordingly… or maybe i was just plain lucky and my tactics had nought to do with it…
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come on moses - god hates a coward :wink:
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btownthug16. stop living up to your handle and show some respect. dezrtfish is a worthy opponent and i’m sure he’d give you more than a run for your money.
one love.
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