@zarhunter said in L26 BM zarhunter (X) vs discalced (L+18) 2:
Good Game, no point going on. I am rustier than I thought.
Your second game was much better than the first. So you’re shaking off the rust.
BM4 Amon-Sul (Allies +15) vs. Pejon_88 (Axis)
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TripleA Turn Summary: Germans round 4
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3
Game History
Round: 4 Purchase Units - Germans Germans buy 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 2 infantry and 5 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Germans 1 mech_infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Ukraine Germans take Ukraine from Russians 2 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from Poland to Baltic States 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone 2 bombers moved from Western Germany to 115 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to Baltic States Combat - Germans Battle in 115 Sea Zone Germans attack with 2 bombers, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber Russians defend with 1 cruiser and 1 submarine Germans roll dice for 2 bombers, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber in 115 Sea Zone, round 2 : 4/6 hits, 3.33 expected hits Russians roll dice for 1 submarine in 115 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits Russians roll dice for 1 cruiser in 115 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits 1 submarine owned by the Russians and 1 cruiser owned by the Russians lost in 115 Sea Zone Germans win with 2 bombers, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 18 Casualties for Russians: 1 cruiser and 1 submarine Battle in Baltic States Germans attack with 2 artilleries, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber Russians defend with 2 artilleries and 2 infantry Germans roll dice for 2 artilleries, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Baltic States, round 2 : 2/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits Russians roll dice for 2 artilleries and 2 infantry in Baltic States, round 2 : 2/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits 2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Baltic States 2 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Baltic States Germans roll dice for 2 artilleries, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Baltic States, round 3 : 1/4 hits, 1.50 expected hits Russians roll dice for 2 artilleries in Baltic States, round 3 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Baltic States 1 artillery owned by the Russians lost in Baltic States Germans roll dice for 2 artilleries and 1 tactical_bomber in Baltic States, round 4 : 0/3 hits, 1.17 expected hits Russians roll dice for 1 artillery in Baltic States, round 4 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 artillery owned by the Germans lost in Baltic States Germans roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 tactical_bomber in Baltic States, round 5 : 1/2 hits, 0.83 expected hits Russians roll dice for 1 artillery in Baltic States, round 5 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 artillery owned by the Germans lost in Baltic States 1 artillery owned by the Russians lost in Baltic States Germans win with 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is -3 Casualties for Germans: 2 artilleries and 3 infantry Casualties for Russians: 2 artilleries and 2 infantry Non Combat Move - Germans 2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone 2 artilleries, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone 2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from 115 Sea Zone to Vyborg 1 artillery and 8 infantry moved from Finland to Vyborg 1 tactical_bomber moved from Baltic States to Vyborg 1 destroyer moved from 125 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Karelia to Vyborg 2 artilleries and 13 infantry moved from Bessarabia to Ukraine 2 mech_infantrys moved from Poland to Western Ukraine 7 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Eastern Poland to Ukraine 3 aaGuns, 4 artilleries and 14 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Western Ukraine 1 infantry moved from Poland to Eastern Poland 2 armour and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Germany to Romania 3 armour moved from Yugoslavia to Bessarabia 2 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to Poland 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Italy to Gibraltar 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Italy to Romania 2 bombers moved from 115 Sea Zone to Western Germany Place Units - Germans 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 2 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys placed in Germany 2 mech_infantrys placed in Western Germany Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 48 PUs; end with 48 PUs Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 53 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Russians regular : 1.67 Germans regular : -0.83 -
@Pejon_88 I happened to notice the discussion about “not being able to land a plane”. This is of course a weird issue and would mean an oversight in the triplea source code.
However, I looked into it and TripleA is not being wrong. There actually WAS a hypothetical way to land all the planes at the end of the combat movement phase. In fact, there are multiple. Here is one:
- Move the carrier from SZ 36 to SZ 55
- Move the fight and tactical from SZ 54 to SZ 55
lands 2/7 planes - Move the fighter and tactical from SZ 30 to Marshall Islands
lands 4/7 planes - Move the fighter and tactical from Malaya to SZ 37
lands 6/7 planes - Move the carrier from sz 33 to sz 54
- Move the fighter from sz 62 to sz 54.
lands 7/7 planes
And the remaining air units can land in a land territory of their choice.
The one in bold is interesting, as that is the only way to allow the landing of the fighter in SZ 62. The rules say, that when determining landing spots for fighters during the CM phase, you may assume that all of your rolls are hits and all of the opponent rolls are misses during battles. @Panther can confirm this. TripleA correctly enforces this and allows this movement because it assumes the Japanese win the battle in SZ 54, allowing the carrier in SZ 33 to move to SZ 54.
However, because this attack in SZ 54 FAILED, this movement of the carrier is not possible in the NCM phase. Therefore, one plane is not able to land.
So there is nothing wrong with TripleA or with your moves. Everything was according to the rules. The only wrong thing would be that a player is supposed to be able to demonstrate landing spots for all of their aircraft at the end of the CM phase. As you were unaware of the landing spots, you technically weren’t allowed to do the moves. But luckily, TripleA does this for you and that rule is also more meant for face-to-face games I guess.
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Actually, if the attack in SZ 54 did not fail, there would be multiple ways to land the fighter in SZ 62, not just one, because the carrier can move three phases. But the failed attack resulted in enemy units being present in SZ 54, blocking all of the paths this carrier can take to be one space away from SZ 62 and allowing the fighter to land…
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Sorry, I just realized I missed some very important key details. Ignore everything I said, I will investigate this further.
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Alright, something is going wrong with TripleA. The engine should not have allowed you to attack Malaya with a fighter and a tactical. This forces a carrier to be present in SZ 37, and there already needs to be one to rescue the planes in SZ 38. This leaves you with only one carrier to pick up three air units that are attacking Australian ships, which is not enough.
I’ll create a bug report for this. Thanks for bringing this to light.
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@VictoryFirst Thank you very much for investigating this. I came to the same conclusion that after moving everything else best I could, I had three planes down in Australia that only had one carrier to utilize.
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@Pejon_88 The issue is definitely interesting to say the least. I tried to move the air units in a different order to see if that mattered, but the engine allowed every move at any point. So it thinks the movement of all air units as a whole is legal.
I will investigate it and hopefully it can be fixed before TripleA 2.7 comes out 👍
Also, regarding the error of the “Test Post”, was it clear from the error message what was exactly wrong? If not, what would you change to the error message to make it more clear?
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@VictoryFirst Yes it seems like the engine thought there were landing spots for every plane for some reason.
Yes, thank you. It did mention I had entered the incorrect password, but it didn’t work for me at first. I probably mistyped. All solved now thanks.
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Victory first
Thanks a lot for the effort U did !
It seems that triple a was wrong because AC from Sz 6 couldnt reach any of the planes
And without it, one plane is doomed
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@VictoryFirst said in BM4 Amon-Sul (Allies +15) vs. Pejon_88 (Axis):
@Pejon_88 The issue is definitely interesting to say the least. I tried to move the air units in a different order to see if that mattered, but the engine allowed every move at any point. So it thinks the movement of all air units as a whole is legal.
I will investigate it and hopefully it can be fixed before TripleA 2.7 comes out 👍
Also, regarding the error of the “Test Post”, was it clear from the error message what was exactly wrong? If not, what would you change to the error message to make it more clear?
I think that Triple a count Shan State (conquered that some round - walk over) as a landing spot.
If Shan State wasnt taken , i think the program probably wouldnt allow the sz 62 attack
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@VictoryFirst Would be very interesting if you could reply in this thread if you find out what went wrong. Thanks!
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I think TripleA’s “oversight” is not and cannot be bound to a single combat move. By the rules all combat movement happens at the same time. As this - for reasons of usability - must be performed step by step the sequence of combat moves is arbitrary. So it can only be after all combat moves have been executed that TripleA might be enabled to check for valid landing spaces.
In this game the attack on Malaya (isolated) will be valid if you bring the carrier from SZ 36 to SZ 37, what gives a valid landing space, and when you move the one from SZ37 to SZ38 you have a valid landing space for the planes there, too (or bring the carrier from SZ 36 to 38 directly and leave the one in 37 there). But in that case only one carrier is present for the three planes in SZ 54 and 62. So here you could blame the movement of three fighters to the seazones south-east of Australia (instead of the attack on Malaya).
So - in case you don’t want the players to be resonsible for their movement - the engine should be enabled to check for landing spaces at the end of Combat Move Phase. During Combat Move Phase TripelA - at the time of executing each move - simply cannot “know” the follow up moves.
But let us further discuss that on https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/14508 .
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@Panther Thanks for your input!
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@Amon-Sul said in BM4 Amon-Sul (Allies +15) vs. Pejon_88 (Axis):
If Shan State wasnt taken , i think the program probably wouldnt allow the sz 62 attack
Just stating already that that has not caused the issue. I started a save file from the start of the Japanese turn, didn’t purchase anything and only did the movements of the 7 air units in question. Still, TripleA allowed the movement of all 7 air units at any point, even though it is obvious one air unit will not have a landing spot. EVen when the fighter moving to SZ 62 is the very last move, the engine still allows it.
That being said, there are complex cases where the engine does correctly disallow some air attacks, when there are multiple carriers involved. One actually occurred in a game I am currently playing against Simon33 on G13, where the engine correctly prevents the movement of one fighter to SZ 91.
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@VictoryFirst said in BM4 Amon-Sul (Allies +15) vs. Pejon_88 (Axis):
@Amon-Sul said in BM4 Amon-Sul (Allies +15) vs. Pejon_88 (Axis):
If Shan State wasnt taken , i think the program probably wouldnt allow the sz 62 attack
Just stating already that that has not caused the issue. I started a save file from the start of the Japanese turn, didn’t purchase anything and only did the movements of the 7 air units in question. Still, TripleA allowed the movement of all 7 air units at any point, even though it is obvious one air unit will not have a landing spot. EVen when the fighter moving to SZ 62 is the very last move, the engine still allows it.
That being said, there are complex cases where the engine does correctly disallow some air attacks, when there are multiple carriers involved. One actually occurred in a game I am currently playing against Simon33 on G13, where the engine correctly prevents the movement of one fighter to SZ 91.
Thanks a lot dude
It seems triple a has a bug sometimes (not Always, which makes it hard to detect) on this Isuse
Good to know
Hope it resolves somehow
Until then we ll be more careful
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TripleA Turn Summary: Russians round 4
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3
Game History
Round: 4 Purchase Units - Russians Russians buy 4 artilleries and 9 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Russians 1 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol Chinese take Jehol from Japanese 1 mech_infantry moved from Sikang to Kansu 1 fighter moved from Novgorod to Kansu 1 infantry moved from Belarus to Eastern Poland 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to Eastern Poland Combat - Russians Battle in Kansu Russians attack with 1 fighter and 1 mech_infantry Japanese defend with 1 infantry Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 1 mech_infantry in Kansu, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kansu, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Kansu Russians win, taking Kansu from Japanese with 1 fighter and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry Battle in Eastern Poland Russians attack with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber Germans defend with 1 infantry Russians roll dice for 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Eastern Poland, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 1.33 expected hits Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Eastern Poland Russians win, taking Eastern Poland from Germans with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Non Combat Move - Russians 3 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Rostov 5 infantry moved from Belarus to Bryansk 2 armour moved from Belarus to Smolensk 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Eastern Poland to Russia 6 artilleries moved from Russia to Tambov 2 aaGuns, 4 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus 1 aaGun moved from Belarus to Smolensk 1 aaGun moved from Belarus to Bryansk 1 infantry moved from Belarus to Baltic States 1 infantry moved from Belarus to Novgorod 2 aaGuns and 16 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol 1 fighter moved from Kansu to Novosibirsk 1 mech_infantry moved from Sikang to Kazakhstan Place Units - Russians 3 infantry placed in Volgograd 4 artilleries and 6 infantry placed in Russia Turn Complete - Russians Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 2 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 6 Sea Zone. Rolls: 2,6 Russians collect 32 PUs (2 lost to blockades); end with 32 PUs Trigger Russians 7 Great Patriotic War: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 35 PUs Trigger Russians 2 Persia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 37 PUs Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 39 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Japanese regular : -0.33 Germans regular : -0.33 Russians regular : 1.00 -
Japan on the move…
Godspeed :)
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I forgot one thing
Can u please move Russian tanks to Russia
I put them to Smolensk
I would Like them in Russia (Moscow)
Thanks man
Japan may proceed
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@Amon-Sul Of course! Will do! Thanks :)
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Unusual and interesting situation on the Eastern Front
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