@The-Farmer said in L26 OOB AndrewAAGamer (X) vs The-Farmer (L+40):
Did you place my UK units?
disregard I saw your combat phase that it was placed.
OOB Playoffs R2 oysteilo (axis) vs. AndrewAAGamer (+51)
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cming up tomorrow, sorry for the delay
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TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 3
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition
Game History
Round: 3 Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 6 infantry and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; Combat Move - Japanese 1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Kansu Japanese take Kansu from Chinese 2 infantry moved from Hunan to Kweichow 2 bombers moved from French Indo China to Kweichow 1 infantry moved from Borneo to 43 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 43 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from 41 Sea Zone to Sumatra 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 42 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Shan State 2 infantry moved from French Indo China to Shan State 1 transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from Kwangtung to 20 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from 44 Sea Zone to Celebes 1 infantry moved from French Indo China to 36 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Malaya 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 33 Sea Zone to 47 Sea Zone 3 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from French Indo China to Shan State Combat - Japanese Battle in Sumatra Battle in Celebes Battle in Malaya Battle in Shan State Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 3 fighters, 3 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers British defend with 3 infantry; ANZAC defend with 1 infantry Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery, 3 fighters, 3 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in Shan State, round 2 : 4/9 hits, 3.83 expected hits UK_Pacific roll dice for 4 infantry in Shan State, round 2 : 2/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits 2 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Shan State 1 infantry owned by the ANZAC and 3 infantry owned by the British lost in Shan State Japanese win, taking Sumatra from Dutch, taking Celebes from Dutch, taking Malaya from UK_Pacific, taking Shan State from UK_Pacific with 1 artillery, 3 fighters, 1 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6 Casualties for Japanese: 2 infantry Casualties for British: 3 infantry Casualties for ANZAC: 1 infantry Battle in Kweichow Japanese attack with 2 bombers and 2 infantry Chinese defend with 2 infantry Japanese roll dice for 2 bombers and 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 2 : 2/4 hits, 1.67 expected hits Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits 2 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Kweichow Japanese win, taking Kweichow from Chinese with 2 bombers and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6 Casualties for Chinese: 2 infantry Battle in 47 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber Americans defend with 1 destroyer Japanese roll dice for 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber in 47 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.67 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 destroyer in 47 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 destroyer owned by the Americans lost in 47 Sea Zone Japanese win with 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8 Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer Non Combat Move - Japanese 2 carriers, 2 destroyers and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 33 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Caroline Islands to 6 Sea Zone 2 bombers moved from Kweichow to French Indo China 2 battleships, 1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 36 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Shan State to 37 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Shan State to French Indo China 1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Hunan to 6 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from 6 Sea Zone to Japan 1 tactical_bomber moved from Hunan to French Indo China 2 fighters moved from Hunan to 6 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from 47 Sea Zone to New Britain 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 47 Sea Zone to Caroline Islands 1 fighter moved from Hunan to French Indo China 3 infantry moved from Shantung to Anhwe 1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Kwangtung 1 infantry moved from Hunan to Kwangsi 4 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from Hunan to Anhwe Place Units - Japanese 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine placed in 6 Sea Zone 3 infantry placed in Shantung 3 infantry placed in French Indo China Turn Complete - Japanese Japanese collect 58 PUs; end with 58 PUs Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 63 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Chinese regular : -0.67 Americans regular : -0.33 Japanese regular : -0.17 UK_Pacific regular : 0.67 -
TripleA Turn Summary: UK_Pacific round 3
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition
Game History
Round: 3 Purchase Units - Americans Americans buy 2 carriers, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Americans Non Combat Move - Americans 1 infantry moved from Brazil to Suriname 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone 2 destroyers and 1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone 2 mech_infantrys moved from Eastern United States to Western United States 4 fighters moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone 2 carriers and 4 fighters moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone 3 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 26 Sea Zone to Wake Island 2 aaGuns and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Eastern United States to Central United States Place Units - Americans 2 carriers, 2 destroyers and 2 transports placed in 10 Sea Zone 1 fighter placed in Western United States Turn Complete - Americans Americans collect 52 PUs; end with 52 PUs Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 62 PUs Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 67 PUs Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 72 PUs Purchase Units - Chinese Trigger Chinese Artillery Supplies: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Open Chinese buy 4 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; Combat Move - Chinese 2 infantry moved from Yunnan to Hunan 1 fighter moved from Yunnan to Hunan 3 artilleries and 16 infantry moved from Yunnan to Kweichow Combat - Chinese Battle in Kweichow Chinese attack with 3 artilleries and 16 infantry Japanese defend with 2 infantry Chinese roll dice for 3 artilleries and 16 infantry in Kweichow, round 2 : 2/19 hits, 4.17 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 2 : 2/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits 2 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Kweichow 2 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Kweichow Chinese win, taking Kweichow from Japanese with 3 artilleries and 14 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0 Casualties for Chinese: 2 infantry Casualties for Japanese: 2 infantry Battle in Hunan Chinese attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry Japanese defend with 1 infantry Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Hunan, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Hunan, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Hunan, round 3 : 0/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Hunan, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Hunan, round 4 : 1/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Hunan, round 4 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Hunan 1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Hunan Chinese win, taking Hunan from Japanese with 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0 Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry Non Combat Move - Chinese 1 fighter moved from Hunan to Tsinghai Place Units - Chinese 4 infantry placed in Kweichow Turn Complete - Chinese Chinese collect 8 PUs; end with 9 PUs Objective Chinese 1 Burma Road: Chinese met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 15 PUs Purchase Units - British British buy 1 destroyer and 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 13 PUs; Purchase Units - UK_Pacific UK_Pacific buy 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - British 1 fighter moved from India to 41 Sea Zone 3 infantry moved from Yunnan to Shan State 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from India to Shan State 1 armour moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Kenya British take Kenya from Italians 1 armour moved from Kenya to Tanganyika Territory 2 infantry moved from Belgian Congo to Tanganyika Territory 1 artillery moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to 81 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 1 cruiser and 1 transport moved from 81 Sea Zone to 80 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Eastern Persia to 80 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 80 Sea Zone to Iraq 1 infantry moved from Northwest Persia to Iraq 1 tactical_bomber moved from Egypt to Iraq 1 bomber moved from Gibraltar to Iraq 1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Iraq Combat - British Battle in 41 Sea Zone British attack with 1 fighter Japanese defend with 1 transport 1 transport owned by the Japanese lost in 41 Sea Zone British win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport Battle in Tanganyika Territory British attack with 1 armour and 2 infantry Italians defend with 1 infantry British roll dice for 1 armour and 2 infantry in Tanganyika Territory, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits Italians roll dice for 1 infantry in Tanganyika Territory, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Tanganyika Territory British win, taking Tanganyika Territory from Italians with 1 armour and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Italians: 1 infantry Battle in Shan State British attack with 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber Japanese defend with 1 artillery and 1 infantry British roll dice for 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Shan State, round 2 : 0/5 hits, 1.67 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Shan State, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Shan State British roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Shan State, round 3 : 1/4 hits, 1.50 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Shan State, round 3 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Shan State British roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Shan State, round 4 : 1/4 hits, 1.50 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery in Shan State, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 artillery owned by the Japanese lost in Shan State British win, taking Shan State from Japanese with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4 Casualties for British: 1 infantry Casualties for Japanese: 1 artillery and 1 infantry Battle in Iraq British attack with 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber Neutral_Axis defend with 3 infantry British roll dice for 1 cruiser in Iraq, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits British roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Iraq, round 2 : 5/6 hits, 2.17 expected hits Neutral_Axis roll dice for 3 infantry in Iraq, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Iraq 3 infantry owned by the Neutral_Axis lost in Iraq British win, taking Iraq from Neutral_Axis with 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6 Casualties for British: 1 infantry Casualties for Neutral_Axis: 3 infantry Non Combat Move - British 1 bomber moved from Iraq to Northwest Persia 1 tactical_bomber moved from Iraq to Egypt 1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Egypt 1 destroyer moved from 81 Sea Zone to 80 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 mech_infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Egypt 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from United Kingdom to Gibraltar 2 aaGuns moved from Yunnan to Kweichow 2 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Yunnan to Kweichow 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Shan State to Kweichow 1 fighter moved from 41 Sea Zone to India 1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to Egypt Place Units - British 3 infantry placed in Egypt 1 destroyer placed in 106 Sea Zone Turn Complete - British British collect 32 PUs; end with 45 PUs Place Units - UK_Pacific 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in India Turn Complete - UK_Pacific Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 1 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 37 Sea Zone. Rolls: 5,2,6,1,1,2,6,4,5 UK_Pacific collect 6 PUs (1 lost to blockades); end with 6 PUs Some Units in India change ownership: 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantryCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Chinese regular : -3.67 Italians regular : -0.33 Japanese regular : 0.67 Neutral_Axis regular : 0.00 British regular : 0.83 -
TripleA Turn Summary: Italians round 3
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition
Game History
Round: 3 Purchase Units - Italians Italians buy 1 carrier and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Italians 1 infantry moved from Romania to Bessarabia Italians take Bessarabia from Russians 1 infantry moved from Tobruk to Alexandria Italians take Alexandria from British 1 armour moved from Algeria to Morocco Italians take Morocco from French 1 armour moved from Morocco to Algeria 1 artillery moved from Ethiopia to Anglo Egyptian Sudan Italians take Anglo Egyptian Sudan from British Combat - Italians Non Combat Move - Italians 1 aaGun, 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Romania to Eastern Poland 1 armour moved from Yugoslavia to Eastern Poland 1 armour moved from Albania to Romania 1 aaGun and 2 infantry moved from Yugoslavia to Romania 1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Albania to Greece 1 mech_infantry moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia 1 aaGun, 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Normandy Bordeaux to France 1 fighter moved from Western Germany to Southern Italy 1 infantry moved from Libya to Tobruk 2 infantry moved from Southern Italy to Northern Italy Place Units - Italians 1 carrier placed in 97 Sea Zone 2 mech_infantrys placed in Northern Italy Turn Complete - Italians Italians collect 19 PUs; end with 19 PUs Objective Italians 3 North Africa: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 24 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
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TripleA Turn Summary: French round 3
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition
Game History
Round: 3 Purchase Units - ANZAC ANZAC buy 1 fighter; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - ANZAC Non Combat Move - ANZAC 2 fighters moved from New South Wales to Queensland 1 destroyer moved from 63 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone Place Units - ANZAC 1 fighter placed in New South Wales Turn Complete - ANZAC ANZAC collect 10 PUs; end with 10 PUs Combat Move - French Non Combat Move - French 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 91 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from United Kingdom to Gibraltar Turn Complete - FrenchCombat Hit Differential Summary :
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cant log in and post from app
Game History
Round: 4 Research Technology - Germans Purchase Units - Germans Germans buy 1 destroyer and 10 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; Combat Move - Germans 6 infantry moved from Karelia to Novgorod Germans take Novgorod from Russians 1 infantry moved from Vyborg to Novgorod 1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Western Ukraine Germans take Western Ukraine from Russians 4 armour, 3 artilleries and 14 infantry moved from Baltic States to Novgorod 2 armour moved from Poland to Novgorod Combat - Germans Non Combat Move - Germans 1 fighter moved from Western Germany to Iceland 1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 2 submarines and 1 transport moved from 125 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from 97 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 fighter moved from 97 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Italy to Western Germany 3 aaGuns moved from Baltic States to Novgorod 1 infantry moved from Poland to Baltic States 4 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from Poland to Eastern Poland 4 armour and 5 mech_infantrys moved from Germany to Eastern Poland 1 armour, 2 artilleries and 7 infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland 1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to Germany 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from France to Western Germany 2 infantry moved from Yugoslavia to Romania 1 armour moved from Greece to Romania 2 infantry moved from Greece to 97 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from 97 Sea Zone to Northern Italy Place Units - Germans 1 destroyer placed in 97 Sea Zone 10 mech_infantrys placed in Germany Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 48 PUs; end with 49 PUs Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 54 PUs Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 59 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
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Game is not letting me post. Will try again tomorrow. You should have received a proton notification of a dice roll.
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TripleA Turn Summary: Russians round 4
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition
Game History
Round: 4 Purchase Units - Russians Russians buy 7 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; Combat Move - Russians Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Kansu: 1 infantry EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Hopei: 1 mech_infantry EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 4 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Kansu Combat - Russians Russians creates battle in territory Kansu Non Combat Move - Russians 1 armour moved from Yunnan to India 4 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kansu to Tsinghai 2 mech_infantrys moved from Northwest Persia to Trans-Jordan 1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone 2 aaGuns, 1 armour, 5 artilleries, 24 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Belarus to Bryansk 1 artillery and 8 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk 3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Bryansk 1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Bryansk to Russia Place Units - Russians 7 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys placed in Russia Turn Complete - Russians Russians collect 30 PUs; end with 31 PUs Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 36 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
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Sorry about the Edit. I left my game up last night and did not save it and my computer rebooted overnight and I had to reconstruct the Turn. Please check your proton mail to see that I took the casualties correctly.
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@AndrewAAGamer said in OOB Playoffs R2 oysteilo (axis) vs. AndrewAAGamer (+51):
Sorry about the Edit. I left my game up last night and did not save it and my computer rebooted overnight and I had to reconstruct the Turn. Please check your proton mail to see that I took the casualties correctly.
Its fine, i saw the dice. Still, this is exactly why your edit policy stinks. Here you make an error (why would you leave your computer on over night without saving the (in)complete file?) and it has absolutely no consequences for you, whereas my misclick in moving a sub too much out of 125 cant be corrected even though i realized 1 min after posting. This is not an attempt to start an argument, but really i dont see the big difference here. And I wont move for a few days
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Again sorry, and you are totally within your right to be upset. Although, truth be told, as a guy who follows the rules and wants other people to follow the rules too, I cannot properly express to you how upset I was when presented with this situation. When I realized I had lost the file I was like “Oh crap! How am I going to fix this without doing an Edit!?!?!” Embarrassment City.
This was not something I wanted to present to you but I could think of no way of getting you a completed Turn without doing the edit.
As for the edit itself, hopefully, and I do think you feel this way too, you realize it was just an accident and not done purposefully. Unfortunately, I have trained myself to save the game after I post it and when I couldn’t post due to the site not working, I just didn’t override my habit and save the game. I was like, I will come back and try to post again later, and then I ended up being busy and never came back. In addition, I am bad at closing my computer down every night. I leave it up for days at a time and since all my other programs, Word, Excel, Chrome, come right back up if the system reboots, I am never punished for this poor behavior. Of course, in this case TripleA does not have that feature.
Hopefully, since this was a very easy Russian Turn and since the site was having issues, you do see it was accidental. It would be awfully coincidental that the one night the site wasn’t allowing posting that was also the same night I made some error I wanted to fix that required the edit. Having said that, it does not remove the possibility, and that is what we are talking about. Transparency. After all, maybe I decided to change my build? Maybe I placed my units and realized I forgot to move somebody? No matter how easy a Turn looks there is always a possibility for an error.
Which brings me to your comment about my edit policy stinking. You are right, to a degree. (More on this below) This was something I didn’t consider when I started to implement the more stringent Playoff Edit policy. What happens if the computer freezes during a Turn? What happens if the program tanks? I had not considered that. And at first, I was thinking, after this debacle, that “Hey Andrew, you need to save every time combat is over to make sure if the file gets lost or corrupted you can restore the game without an edit.” But upon thinking about this more and more I realize the entire way virtually everyone on this site posts is incorrect.
What do we all do? We take the end Turn file and use it for our Turn. Unless there are combat questions, like OOL or scrambling, we conduct the entire Turn and then send the end Turn file. But what if there is a computer freeze? We all trust our opponent to reconstruct the Turn with edits, if combat occurred, and move on. But, do we really know it is the same Turn? After all, we did not see anything that occurred except for combat rolls. The more I considered this it occurred to me it is not enough to save the game after combat so if the game freezes I can reconstruct it without edits because what if it freezes DURING combat rolls. I don’t know about you but I remember at least twice this happening to me. This does open up an interesting path I had not previously thought of.
Consider this. I have X number of battles. Two of them are dependent on each other, as in I expect to win battle A, but if for some reason I lose battle A then I really don’t want to conduct battle B. So, I roll battle A, then if something goes horribly wrong, I turn off the game and reload the Turn but with a different Combat Move and only reconstruct the actual battle that I rolled. I am not saying people are doing this, but the way we post does allow for this contingency. What we should be doing, I now realize, is post at the end of the Combat Move, and then save and/or post after Combat and then post the end of the Turn. This way, as far as I can see, there is no way to lose the game and not have full transparency to your opponent if any edits are required to reconstruct the game.
Therefore, I am going to start posting end of Combat Moves and I would ask you, and my other opponents, to do the same. In addition, I am going to save the game after every combat phase so I would only have to edit combat if the game froze during combat rolls and only then.
Please realize I am not accusing you or any other opponent of doing this. But as Ronald Reagan said “Trust, but verify.”
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Hi again
First of all I have no reason not to believe you when explaining what happened. I believe and trust you 100% on that. However, that is not what this is about. This is about an edit policy that you force me to accept and that I clearly state I dont like and noone is using but you, but still you give me nothing and force this on me. It is rigid and absolutely not flexible in any way. The edit policy stands and it states the only allowable edits are to correct for things Triple A does not do correctly. So, to the point, your edit is an illegal edit according to the rules stated on page one in this thread. I cant see it any other way than that. The question becomes how flexible I am going to be. One part of me thinks I should claim a win here just to prove to you how useless this edit policy is. I am also thinking maybe a 3rd party ruling is in place here as it is always a danger to be a victim of my subjective opinion. How do you feel about this, a third party opinion?
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Wow – from “This is not an attempt to start an argument” to “One part of me thinks I should claim a win just to prove to you how useless this edit policy is” in less than 48 hours. That has to be a record.
Okay, we can discuss this if that is what you want. Thank you for admitting that this has nothing to do with the actual edit itself and everything to do with what you consider an unfair edit policy that has been forced on you.
So, lets talk about the edit policy.-
Since I do not like arguments or conflict and since I want everyone to have as good a time as possible playing, I want to make sure that everyone is on the same page, regarding edits, before the game starts. That is why I bring it up so later in the game when someone asks for an edit and it is denied they are not upset.
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While I agree with it, this is NOT my Edit Policy. Per the League Rules, below, you are not allowed to make edits without your opponent’s permission. Thus, I did not “force” you to accept an edit policy, nor could I "force” you to accept an edit policy that was not already in place.
9 - Order of Play - You may not go back to previous phases/turns of the game and make changes without your opponent’s permission.
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Because I want agreement from all sides, I post the edit policy and ask for acceptance. This incident has taught me that going forward I will simply say, “I am using the default league edit rules that edits will not be allowed without your opponent’s agreement and I will not be asking for nor approving any edits.”
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As you have already stated you are not upset about the edit, you are upset about the edit policy. I would infer, from your statements, that you are doubly upset since you just made an error with Germany and did not realize it till after you posted. I would point out that many people on this site will not accept any edit changes once the Turn is posted. So, your anger should be directed at yourself for making the German error and not at me for trying to fix a Russian lost save game file.
Speaking of the edit, you are perfectly within your rights to state, “Andrew, I do not accept your edit.” In which case I will have to redo the entire Russian Turn and present you with a non-edited file. Do you deny me the edit and wish me to redo the Russian Turn?
As far your idea of claiming a victory that is frankly ludicrous. The edit policy is an agreement, aka a contract. The ONLY penalty for posting an edit is that it can be denied. There is no other penalty listed in our game or on the League Rules. You cannot suddenly add penalty clauses to an agreement that were not there originally after the fact. Your only recourse is to either accept, or deny, the edit.
Finally, you do not need my permission or agrement to go to a Moderator to ask for a ruling. There is nothing in the League Rules that says both sides have to agree for one side to contact a Moderator. Note, that I will certainly accept whatever a Moderator decides as that is clearly listed in the League Rules as below:
11 - Moderators will make the final decision on any rules, violations of the same, or any other game disputes. Moderator rulings are FINAL. PERIOD.
Though, since you openly admit that you are fine with the edit, why a Moderator would suggest anything beyond what I have already proposed, which is to, either accept the edit and play on or deny it and have me redo the Russian Turn.
Please let me know if you are accepting the edit, or denying the edit, and want me to redo the Russian Turn.
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Yes, at this point I want to know what other people think. I realize shiiite happens and some times things dont go the way you plan. Regardless, in this situation I feel you expect me to give you creditibility you would never give me. That is what annoys me. Maybe @gamerman01 can give some advise on how to deal with this
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@oysteilo said in OOB Playoffs R2 oysteilo (axis) vs. AndrewAAGamer (+51):
Regardless, in this situation I feel you expect me to give you creditibility you would never give me.
I am not sure why you feel that way. If you had presented me with a combat edit that matched the dice rolled due to losing the game file I highly doubt I would have said anything negative about it.
It wasn’t till AFTER our discussion that it occurred to me that we all really should be posting after the Combat Move to provide complete transparency to our Opponents. Even then, I cannot force anyone to post after their Combat Move. I intend to try and do it just to avoid disagreements such as this. I would rather post and never have this kind of conversation than not post and have someone wondering if my “lost” game file is legitimate or not.
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BTW, since you are asking for a ruling from a Moderator should we clarify what rulings we are requesting?
If I understand you correctly you want the game awarded to you. Or do you just want the Moderator to chastise me for using the League Edit Rules?
As for me I want you to either accept the edit and play on or deny it and I will redo the Russian Turn.
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@AndrewAAGamer said in OOB Playoffs R2 oysteilo (axis) vs. AndrewAAGamer (+51):
Speaking of the edit, you are perfectly within your rights to state, “Andrew, I do not accept your edit.” In which case I will have to redo the entire Russian Turn and present you with a non-edited file. Do you deny me the edit and wish me to redo the Russian Turn?
Andrew, just asking for clarification on this. I don’t understand how this would be allowable, to re-do Russia’s entire turn, including dice rolls.
By extension, are you saying the German’s would have had the opportunity to re-do their entire turn, including NCM rather than submitting an edited file?
This seems far worse than allowing a simple edit from a NCM phase.
Regarding the greater issue at hand though, I don’t believe this follows Generally Accepted league practices with a rather legalistic and unyielding view of edits in playoff games. In my experience, I have not encountered a single player in league who does not allow NCM edits if the next turn has not started. This is mainly for (1) Fun game play experience (2) More competitive game play experience (do you want to win due to an obvious oversight?) (3) Imperfect translation of an over-the-board experience to an online experience.
As luck would have it, a new player asked me about how the League works, and when moves are “locked in” or not, and when edits are acceptable. I re-post my response to him here, with minor editorial corrections (sorry about specific references to our game as well):
Well, the moderator of the league is gamerman01, so he knows best, but I will take a quick stab at it here.
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Attack orders/Scramble/Intercept requests:
Once you send the request, these attack orders become locked in. You can’t ask about scrambling/intercept, get a response you don’t really like, then change your mind and change up the attacks. -
Attack rolls:
Once you start, you have to at least finish 1 round of attacks and then retreat if you made a mistake or the battle is not going your way. You can do as much “simulation” gaming as you wish with local rolls, but once they are sent to the dice server, thy are locked in and cannot be changed. If there is an obvious blunder made, like in your case bringing in the transports, that can be addressed after the attacks are resolved - that would have been an easy edit back. -
When is it OK to make edits?
Generally, when all the main dice rolls have completed, the Non-Combat Move phase is in the aftermath of the battles that took place. Most players allow virtually as many edits as you need here, provided the other side hasn’t started their turn. If you have significant edits to make, you should post quickly and ask the other player to hold off taking their turn until you complete the edits. Forgotten obvious walk-in attacks or killing of defenseless transports are a bit more gray, but most players here will allow this to take place as well if you missed something. If it is justifiable that the move “would not have been affected by any of the dice outcomes”, this is usually permitted, but should be requested, as your opponent could technically deny it, as it needed to be included with your initial Combat phase declarations. Most people here are pretty casual and out for a fun game, so aren’t sticklers about this, but then some are.
While statement (3) in particular is not codified in the rules, I would say it is a generally accepted standard within the league.
Full respect to you Andrew - I think you have advanced the quality of play more than anyone else, with your excellent strategy essays (which I deem as required reading for any new league player) and extremely insightful interview.
I would humbly suggest this game adheres to what the rest of the league has come to recognize as the standard with respect to edits, which I attempted to outline, but could likely use refinement as well.
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Well said @Booper
To me this is about edits, nothing else. Germany round 4 shows what i dislike about this. Not a single dice is rolled here, but the error i make is that i post. Technically i could have just started over again and no worries, but when the file is posted it is hard to do and I dont bother asking for an edit. Because my opponent would never ever ever accept it. And what is next? He is doing an edit because something happened that he has not thought about and then the edit policy, that he has forced me to accept, suddenly does not apply. For me my error has a consequence, but for Andrew he can just start over again. That strikes me as unfair -
Really, all i ask for at this point is the following
- Put a sub in 125 and take 5 ipc away from Russia, so Russia is at 31
- NC edits can be made for the rest of the game.
If @AndrewAAGamer agrees to this no need for @gamerman01 to get involved
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