Need Ruling fast

[pokemaniac]

My friend and I are playing global and it’s pretty close. He wants to do an amphibious assualt on west germany with a transport and an aircraft carrier. I have a sub in the seazone he is landing from. Can he make the landing or does the sub just kill his units since they have no attack values.

[Gargantua]

he can choose to ignore sub unless you can scramble.

[pokemaniac]

That’s not good :-o. I think i can still win though. I think that ruling doesn’t really make sense. A transport can’t amphib assualt without a surface ship to protect it. But a carrier has no offensive value so I didn’t consider it as an escort. We are playing total victory (no VCs) and Japan has killed the whole pacific except Anzac (i have Hawii and have destroyed the US navy). Germany is doing awful though. Anyways thanks for the fast ruling Garg.

[Gargantua]

I agree it doesn’t make alot of sense…

but surface ships attack value or not, can ignore subs.

Only transports ALONE cannot ignore the subs.

[gamerman01]

Garg is right -
The actual rule is that any WARSHIP escorting the transport allows it to ignore the subs.  A sub is a warship and can escort, by the way.  (No “surface” warship needed for this purpose)
A carrier is a warship.  It can do the job just fine.

[edfactor]

I thought you could only ignore them for movement, if you end your move in an area with an enemy sub there is still a combat and if your an aircraft carrier and a transport for example you can’t hit the sub so the sub rolls at a 1 until the attacker retreats or the sub kills them all.

[gamerman01]

@edfactor:

I thought you could only ignore them for movement, if you end your move in an area with an enemy sub there is still a combat and if your an aircraft carrier and a transport for example you can’t hit the sub so the sub rolls at a 1 until the attacker retreats or the sub kills them all.

No, you’re mistaken.
Movement includes ending in the same zone as a sub.
Subs can be 100% ignored if they are not with any surface warships.  The only exception is an attacking transport unescorted by any warships.  A transport that is not escorted by warship(s) is not allowed to conduct amphibious assaults over sub(s).

[gamerman01]

@Gargantua:

but surface ships attack value or not, can ignore subs.

Only transports ALONE cannot ignore the subs.

Actually ANY ships can ignore subs, not just surface ships (subs can ignore subs)

[zanetheinsane]

We actually had this come up in the FAQ recently. Even if that carrier has planes on it, it would be the same situation. But interestingly enough, if you scambled one fighter you would bring the sub into the fight and since planes can’t hit subs and carriers have no attack values, he would end up having to retreat or the sub would just keep rolling against his carrier with no repercussion until he sank it.

[Most Holy]

I understand that the rule is have you’ve all said but it’s still BS that a ship with no attack value can allow the attacker to ignore the sub. Why the Hell would the sub sit by and watch these guys that can’t hit him invade his home without doing anything. Utter BS.

[gliven]

Yeah i dont like the rule either, the offloading navy would be a sitting duck against the sub.

[gamerman01]

Sea zones are big.  Maybe the sub is 100 miles away

[Witt]

Or crewed like the Mary Celeste.

[Most Holy]

@Gamerman01:

Sea zones are big.  Maybe the sub is 100 miles away

All respect but this. Oils be said for any sea unit in a large zone. The rule is BS.

[gamerman01]

Sorry I tried to help you

House rule whatever you want - if your opponent goes along with it you can play however you want.

But if you’re playing by the rules, that’s the rule.  No one said all the rules are realistic and make sense - most of them don’t actually.  Maybe A&A isn’t for you.  Whining about them hear helps no one - you’re just venting

[Jennifer]

@wittman:

Or crewed like the Mary Celeste.

Now that would be worth a couple karma -if we still had that system…I love the Mary Celeste!    I ever get a daughter, her name is going to be Mary Celeste (my last name)!

[Most Holy]

@Gamerman01:

Sorry I tried to help you

House rule whatever you want - if your opponent goes along with it you can play however you want.

But if you’re playing by the rules, that’s the rule.  No one said all the rules are realistic and make sense - most of them don’t actually.  Maybe A&A isn’t for you.  Whining about them hear helps no one - you’re just venting

I understand the rule, I just don’t like it. Sorry if you feel I’m whining and I’m certainly not busting YOUR balls about it. Perhaps you’re right though. This is the wrong place to mention it, and I do thank you for the clarification on this rule. If this situation ever came up in a game I was playing and he’d not read what you wrote I’d have said the invasion fails and the sub kills everything.

[kcdzim]

@Most:

@Gamerman01:

Sorry I tried to help you

House rule whatever you want - if your opponent goes along with it you can play however you want.

But if you’re playing by the rules, that’s the rule.  No one said all the rules are realistic and make sense - most of them don’t actually.  Maybe A&A isn’t for you.  Whining about them hear helps no one - you’re just venting

I understand the rule, I just don’t like it. Sorry if you feel I’m whining and I’m certainly not busting YOUR balls about it. Perhaps you’re right though. This is the wrong place to mention it, and I do thank you for the clarification on this rule. If this situation ever came up in a game I was playing and he’d not read what you wrote I’d have said the invasion fails and the sub kills everything.

Well, assuming that sub did stop the invasion (it doesn’t) and a carrier didn’t count as an escort (it does), please don’t forget that the attacker always has the option to retreat.  After one round of combat, in which the sub would fire at a “1”, the carrier and transport could retreat.  So the sub can only “kill everything” if the attacker couldn’t retreat or chose not to retreat.  Transports and the like are only automatically killed on the defenders side when no other option remains.

[Most Holy]

That’s true, and slipped my mind. But this would effectively stop the invasion, which I believe it should. I know the rule is the rule I just think its goofy that a sub would be ignored by something that couldn’t attack it. CV’s have changed so much during all the incarnations of A&A and it seems will continue to, having no attack value is silly but giving them Capitol ship status would make them too powerfull if they had attack powers or too expensive. Any way, again, thanks for the clarification, I would have played it differently and not even have thought to ask. And again, no disrespect Gamerman, I just don’t like the rule is all.