3 Key Allied Territories (Epl, Per, Novo)

[gamerman01]

@Zhukov44:

Time is not necessarily on the Allies’ side…actually I think the opposite is the case, and Allies need to be aggressive.

This has been my experience, as well.  Kind of the opposite of the old games.

Axis can often hold onto 6-8 NO’s at once.  Too many turns of this spells death for Allies.

I understand your “center of the board” idea and key territories of Epl, Per, and Novo assumes that Russia is the end all - be all.  As you said, 90% of games hang on whether Berlin or Moscow falls.

This has not been my experience.  Many of the games I’ve been in are decided before any capital falls.  If the Allies can’t get enough of their NO’s going, and can’t stop the Axis from getting 6-8 NO’s per turn, it doesn’t matter if Allies hold EPl, Per and Novo.

As Zhukov said, time is not necessarily on the Allies’ side.  The days of hanging onto Moscow at all costs until the US and UK save the day, are over.  Now it’s more like the Axis try to hang on in Europe until Japan saves the day, many times.

[DarthMaximus]

I agree with both of you that time is not on the Allies side to start or for much of the early game, but they can flip it, usually when Russia is able to get her big NO.  If you can get it by turn 3 or 4 that is great (but not likely to happen in the vaste majority of games), but if I’m doing well, I usually see it come into play in maybe rd 5-7 or so.

I also agree that the Allies need to be aggressive, you can’t just sit back and wait for help early on.  But that doesn’t mean you can’t target key territories.

I guess my question to you guys would be, how are the Allies winning in your games?  You can assume whatever bid you want for a fair game.

Do you see loading up going for Fra or Nwe with heavy landings?
Taking Rome first?
SBR raids of doom?
KJF?

I’ve just found it much harder for the direct landing in Fra or Rome plus I don’t like to separate the 3 Allies.  Even if the Allies are winning ‘quicker games’ how are they doing it???

[gamerman01]

@DarthMaximus:

I guess my question to you guys would be, how are the Allies winning in your games?  You can assume whatever bid you want for a fair game.

Do you see loading up going for Fra or Nwe with heavy landings?

Sometimes.  I think it’s sometimes most effective for the UK to build up a landing force that is greater than 8 ground units (the maximum building capacity) to threaten multiple territories.  It’s often not a good idea to land 6-8 units a turn, but to build up more than that so a major landing can take place (sounds like I’m describing D-Day - I guess that makes sense)  Sometimes Berlin itself can be taken, without piddling around with NWE and France.

Taking Rome first?

A so-called KIF - very rare in my experience.  No, Allied wins in my games are usually what you described - Russia getting the big NO for a few turns (or more), usually with the UK taking over Scandinavia, and Russia picking up Bulgaria, or the UK getting Poland, or Balkans.  Although, this is much, much easier in '42 when Britain comes after G and before R than in '41.  I don’t play that much '41.

SBR raids of doom?

Heh - not usually.  As Allies, I don’t do much SBR, and as Axis, I’ve only been the recipient a few times.  Once, I was playing a champion player, and he sent in quite a few American bombers every turn early, but my AA never hit him.  Obviously, when AA never hits, SBR works great.  I think it’s risky, and not my method of choice.

KJF?

J is almost never K’d.  :lol:
But I have the minority opinion that there is a LOT of money at stake in the Pacific, and that leaving Japan alone is a mistake, unless you have some unstoppable KGF strat.  The NO for UK is very significant, and the one for USA as well.  It is not uncommon to undo J’s NO for the 6 territories, and sometimes reclaim the Phillipines as well.  It doesn’t take that much for the USA to dance with the Japs in the Pacific and make some progress, and cause some headaches.  I am loathe to let Japan off the hook and just do whatever she wants to terrorize the UK and Russia, and sometimes even the USA.

I enjoy the thoughtful discourse and ideas you put out here, Darth.  I hope my experiences are helpful, or at least interesting to you, too.

[Zhukov44]

@DarthMaximus:

I guess my question to you guys would be, how are the Allies winning in your games?  You can assume whatever bid you want for a fair game.

Do you see loading up going for Fra or Nwe with heavy landings?
Taking Rome first?
SBR raids of doom?
KJF?

Assuming fairly equal competition, Allied wins typically require either dice luck or Axis errors, even minor ones.

Common traits of Allied wins include an aggressive Russia, and aggressive landings in France and/or Italy before Western Axis can build up their defenses.  If Allies gang up on Germany/Italy, they don’t necessarily need to make 1:1 trades…they can afford to takes losses for positional and NO benefits.  It ought to be hard for Axis to stack Germany, France, and Italy and still hold Poland and the German NOs.

[Khobai]

Not sure about Epl. Certainly its great if Russia can hold Epl but I dont think its a reasonable goal in most games. Its too hard to hold Epl against a good Germany player and if Russia is ever able to hold Epl it means Axis are on the fast track to losing.

[dondoolee]

Persia to me is definitely the most critical to hold.  Novo is probably #2.  Those two territories seem like THE game, everything else seems minor when compared

[Wilson2]

@Zhukov44:

@DarthMaximus:

The reason I like Epl in Europe is b/c I think if I can get it then the threat to Moscow from both Ger and Ita is gone.  I don’t have to worry about defending north or south, I can simply pump units into one spot Epl until I have enough for a 1-2-3 attack on Pol or force Germany to deadzone Pol.  Either way good for the Allies.  Once Pol is deadzoned you can go 3 on 1 vs. Japan if Berlin is too well defended to take b/c you now have the economic adv and time is now on your side.

What are you assuming the Allies control at this point?  Economic advantage depends on the situation in Africa and in the Pacific.  Once Japan has Siberia and China, Allies are hard pressed to hold the economic advantage even if they control Africa.

Time is not necessarily on the Allies’ side…actually I think the opposite is the case, and Allies need to be aggressive.

An interesting concept, since in all the other versions of Axis and Allies, unless the game was over or practically over, the allies had a economic advantage.

[cts17]

While those two territories are essential, taking Germany is crucial, and often impossible. Facing off against Germany when simply nailing Japan is far easier. The Axis player is expecting you to go for his capital, especially with a Gbr to Kar via Nor/Fin, and US to Ita via Alg. I think that once you have Ger crippled, a 4inf/4arm Gbr shuck into Nwe/Pol is perfect, especially as US takes Africa, and threatens Ita. Once Italy falls, and she must fall to the US, holding Egy becomes key. Actually, I should say, TAKING egy becomes key. If you can move your fleet down into the Indian Ocean and force Japan onto her heels, the game is yours.

[Bigtiti]

eastern ukraine
if helf by germans you’ll lose either moscow or caucasus

[axis_roll]

@Frontovik:

eastern ukraine
if helf by germans you’ll lose either moscow or caucasus

Perhaps for a round Caucasus can fall, but not necessarily the game loser as you might be implying.

EUK is like West Russia in Revised in terms of pressuring both Moscow and Caucasus.