Re: Field Marshal Games Pieces Project Discussion thread

[kcdzim]

@Upside-down_Turtle:

No, no poll!  You wanna hear from the people?…Well, this people says, “FMG, you are right, they are wrong.  If Germany is made black, you will be abandoning this customer in particular.  My dice are Gray, I like Gray, Gray makes sense, Gray is better.  Black is stupid.  What’s the point of making a 1000+ piece WWII set if it doesn’t even match the dice?  Do you really want to deal with angry customers who want refunds?  Gray sells very well for the dice, it will sell well for the units set.”

uh…  ok.  Let’s not make this about personal inflammatory opinions, because your singular opinion is no more important that mine, or anyone else’s.

But since YOU said it, here’s my rebuttal.  If the units don’t match or get close to current release colors, I know I’m not buying them.  I so rarely play, these figs will be a complete luxury and unnecessary expense.  Thus, it all comes down to aesthetics and cleanliness of the board for me.  When I do play I would intend to use FMG figs in conjunction with OOB figs for tech and variety.  I can’t imagine playing only with FMG pieces considering that as FMG intends not to remold the OOB units, and why would I want to play Britain without a Spitfire or the Japanese without an A6M?  I’m just not interested in having figures with 3 (or 4) shades of gray out on the board: OOB “black”, FMG figs, OOB ANZAC “slate” (and FMG ANZAC, if they’re made).  That is visually displeasing to me, and confusing to anyone who hasn’t played extensively and can’t identify german planes, tanks and ships on sight when compared to Anzac planes, tanks and ships.

Personally, I’d prefer the dice match my AA50 game colors, but they don’t as they were made before AA50 was released.  Ok.  Fair enough.  But FMG dice aren’t going to be mixed in with black dice with an iron cross and only on a bad roll do they end up bouncing into the units they supposedly color match. The dice are completely distinct as a game element and because of that, are not as strong  of a case for matching unit colors than the mold colors of units the OOB AA50/AA1942/AAE40 releases that they supplement because that’s what they sit next to (not replace, at least, not to those of us who like the Yamato class, Bismark class, etc etc etc).

That said, our personal opinions do not render the poll illegitmate.  If the poll wins for gray, they should be gray.  If the masses prefer black, then they should be black. Either way, one of us will be disappointed, but the majority of the people here will still buy either way.  So let the masses speak and treat them with the civility they deserve.

But, as an appeal to black units, I submit this:  As a thought experiment mix in some ANZAC figs in with your German units in your next AA50 game.  That would give an approximate impression of what the game will look like should you use FMG gray w/ OOB german pieces.  If you are still satisfied with the aesthetic ramifications of this, then so be it.

(edited for clarity and spelling errors)

[questioneer]

@Upside-down_Turtle:

Don’t be W-O-T-C, be F-M-G
Don’t be an X-Box 360, be a Nintendo Wii

But X-Box 360 is so much sweeter! :lol:

[trackmagic]

Wow, there are some strong opinions regarding whether the Germans should be black or grey.

Paint your pieces…I started doing that and they look sweeeeet!

[Guest]

@trackmagic:

Wow, there are some strong opinions regarding whether the Germans should be black or grey.

Paint your pieces…I started doing that and they look sweeeeet!

Did you paint your black pieces gray, or your gray pieces black?

[Viracocha]

@questioneer:

@Upside-down_Turtle:

Don’t be W-O-T-C, be F-M-G
Don’t be an X-Box 360, be a Nintendo Wii

But X-Box 360 is so much sweeter! :lol:

Bah. PS3 kicks both their - errr, Gold Leader: “Stay on target…”

[FieldMarshalGames]

Its so hard to make EVERYONE happy…  :-(

[Rorschach]

@FieldMarshalGames:

Its so hard to make EVERYONE happy…   :-(

And the truth of the matter is you never, ever will.

If someone will NOT buy the pieces because they are grey, there will be another person right behind them who won’t buy them because they are black.

My first thought would be to not even mix FMG pieces with OOB pieces due to the pure quality of detail, forget about color!  Who wants piss-poor molds sitting side by side with the top of the line quality on the same board?  Not I.

[questioneer]

We will all buy them either way FMG- don’t worry bout that.  The poll is fair- whatever the result is we will all buy!!!  You guys are doing a great job!!!  You won’t make everyone happy- but 99% of us will be VERY happy.  Cheer up!! :-D :-)

[reloader-1]

To all you people talking about poor mold quality - have you bought Spring 1942? Some of the best mold quality I’ve ever seen in a game.

I highly doubt they have.

[Guest]

@FieldMarshalGames:

Its so hard to make EVERYONE happy…   :-(

If you try to make everyone happy, surely you will be unhappy and there is the irony.

[trackmagic]

@Brain:

@trackmagic:

Wow, there are some strong opinions regarding whether the Germans should be black or grey.

Paint your pieces…I started doing that and they look sweeeeet!

Did you paint your black pieces gray, or your gray pieces black?

Haven’t got to Die Germans yet, but they will most likely be grey since most of the Vermacht was grey.

Seriously though guys threats like “I will not buy the pieces unless they are grey” is ridiculous. FMG is doing their best to please everybody, but on this there is not a consensus. If it is not what you like then get over it!

[reloader-1]

Agree completely with Yoper

Quite honestly, I have more than enough sets of pieces in different colors to satisfy all my Minor/Major Power or SS/Paratrooper desires.

What I am really interested in is all-new units that can be blended with current OOb pieces to create a much wider variety of pieces (light/heavy tanks, mech and motorized inf, etc).

I could care less that the pieces be the correct WWII color - I just want them to match what I have. Otherwise, I am buying a glorified A&A Spring 1942 set.

[kcdzim]

@Yoper:

kcdzim: Perfect post!  8-)

I know this will sound horrible, especially since I have a working agreement with FMG for dice towers, but I don’t use the FMG Combat Dice.  So I don’t care about the color of the dice as it relates to the parts.

I do care about how the two sets of parts relate to one another.  The colors need to match.

Thanks.  I’m worried that post will be buried, but I really do hope people try a game of AA50 with Germany played with OOB with AAP Anzac as tech units (or Revised German Gray) and convince me that that looks good 'cause I’m not seeing it.  And I can’t imagine playing Germany without a BF109 and a Stuka (undoutably OOB tac bomber) just using the FMG units.

As for dice, I purchased the FMG dice, and I like them well enough.  However, I would have prefered 5 color coded dice for each hit type (a one hit dice has crosshairs over the one pip, a two has two crosshairs over the one and two pip, etc, etc, through 5, and then 6 of each or so).  Roll all the dice at once and instantly know how many hits you got.  Though not as “cute” in the national sense, much MUCH more functional as far as the game goes.

[Guest]

I am trying to remember how happy everyone was when FMG first announced that they were going to make new pieces. I am also trying to figure out how we came to this point.  :?

[Viracocha]

Here’s me, still happy  :-D

[Variable]

@Brain:

I am trying to remember how happy everyone was when FMG first announced that they were going to make new pieces. I am also trying to figure out how we came to this point.  :?

I don’t think anyone’s really unhappy; we all appreciate all the hard work that FMG has put into this project. What this is, is a debate over opinion. As such, there really is no true “right” or “wrong” answer. But FMG has given us, the customers, the rarest of opportunities. They are providing us with the ability to shape future products by direct involvement.

Because this is based on opinion, everyone will naturally think they have better reasons than anyone else, myself included, which is OK. We are all putting our $.02 in, falling almost exactly 50-50 on this issue. In the end though, what we all really want and can hopefully agree on, is for FMG to listen to all the arguments, black or grey, and decide what is best for all. I think we will all end up with our set of FMG Germans in the end, no matter what, because we trust FMG to provide us the best possible product they can after listening to our community. They have no equal right now and we all know that.

That said, please keep the debate going and involve new people. A fresh perspective and new ideas should always be welcome!

[knp7765]

I tend to agree with those that want Germany to be black so as to match the current pieces, especially if FMG is not going to use the unit types that we have (Panther tank, Me109, Bismarck, etc.).  Personally, I think that FMG should use molds of at least some of the current units.  I can see giving Britain their own class of destroyer and submarine, Russia their own class of Aircraft Carrier, artillery pieces unique to each country, etc. but I see no reason to replace other units like the P-38, B-17, Spitfire, Me109, Zero, etc.  The thing is that we already know the FMG pieces will be so much better detailed than the WOTC pieces.  We all saw the incredible detail of the Italian Littorio class Battleship.  Well, just imagine how much nicer FMG’s version of the Bismarck, Iowa or Yamato will be.  FMG’s pieces don’t need to REPLACE all of the WOTC unit types.  They will probably be a significant upgrade in detail and craftsmanship as is.  Italy needed a complete overhaul because except for the infantry and tank, WOTC just copied other Axis units and made them brown.  It seems stupid to me to have Italy fighting with German U-Boats and fighters and Japanese artillery and bombers.  However, for the most part, all the other nations have great unit types and I just don’t think they all need to be changed.

That being said, if the FMG German pieces do come out grey, what color will ANZAC be?

[questioneer]

@Yoper:

@kcdzim:

@Yoper:

kcdzim: Perfect post!  8-)

I know this will sound horrible, especially since I have a working agreement with FMG for dice towers, but I don’t use the FMG Combat Dice.  So I don’t care about the color of the dice as it relates to the parts.

I do care about how the two sets of parts relate to one another.  The colors need to match.

Thanks.  I’m worried that post will be buried, but I really do hope people try a game of AA50 with Germany played with OOB with AAP Anzac as tech units (or Revised German Gray) and convince me that that looks good 'cause I’m not seeing it.  And I can’t imagine playing Germany without a BF109 and a Stuka (undoutably OOB tac bomber) just using the FMG units.

As for dice, I purchased the FMG dice, and I like them well enough.  However, I would have prefered 5 color coded dice for each hit type (a one hit dice has crosshairs over the one pip, a two has two crosshairs over the one and two pip, etc, etc, through 5, and then 6 of each or so).  Roll all the dice at once and instantly know how many hits you got.  Though not as “cute” in the national sense, much MUCH more functional as far as the game goes.

In all of my games (Revised, AA42, AA50, AA40 Pacific) I have dice sets with four dice colors.

White- 1
Black- 2
Green/Blue- 3
Red- 4

It allows me to roll the little battles all at one time.  The standardization speeds up the game and keeps the arguments to a minimum as to what was rolled.

I do the same except for

1- White
2- Black
3- Red
4- Blue

Rolling at the same time makes things faster for sure.  Great tip.  Learned this back in the old “Caspian Sub” days. :wink: :-)

[WOPR]

@FieldMarshalGames:

Its so hard to make EVERYONE happy…   :-(

Don’t try.

“I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.” Bill Cosby

[WOPR]

@reloader-1:

That being said, I feel that you would be abandoning these selfsame customers by not allowing them to use the pieces they already have in addition to the ones you will make.

The pieces we already have are of inferior quality to what FMG will provide for us. They SHOULDN’T be used together.

@reloader-1:

I have made a poll on this matter - I am being vehement on this issue because I strongly feel that it would be in your financial interest to make them black

It would be in YOUR financial interest not FMG’s.

@reloader-1:

I don’t think people realize that a vote for gray is limiting  their options – let me explain:

I don’t think you realize that a vote for black is limiting FMGs options.

@reloader-1:

The Americans are color matched to OOB pieces: They have an M3 Stuart, and an M26 Pershing. They also have a P51 and B-24 piece, as well as a new artillery piece.

What can you do with those? Well, the P-38 OOB is now a long-range fighter. The M3 Stuart is a “light tank” (potential 3 move tank, maybe?), the OOB Sherman is medium or regular tank, and the M26 can be a heavy tank or tank destroyer.

See what I mean?

Yeah, I do. Now you don’t have to buy the FMG P-38, Sherman, etc.

@reloader-1:

The same can be done for Germany if done in black – light tank is a Panzer III, medium/regular is OOB Panzer, and a Tiger tank could be the heavy/tank destroyer piece, etc, etc.

The colors in gray would result in a huge array of pieces for the US… and a limited amount of pieces for Germany (really leaving us no better than where we started. I have trucks from Bulge, will have mech inf and tac bombers from Europe 1940. What I really want is more unit variety, so we can have more units on the board!

FMG can offer those units you want in their next set and SELL them to you thereby making MORE money not less.  :? Your argument is both short sighted and self serving.