Hi,
If you dont mind I would like to call this one already, somehow I started very badly with Germany and in the pacific. Ill start a new game tomorrow. Hope you dont mind. Thanks for your patience in the matter.
TGC (Germans) vs Doman (Allies), Original Europe
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Game History
Round: 5 Purchase Units - Germans Germans buy 13 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Germans Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Norway: 1 bomber EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 1 infantry moved from Baltic States to East Poland 20 armour, 8 artilleries and 59 infantry moved from Baltic States to Belorussia Germans take Belorussia from Russians 2 infantry moved from Germany to Poland 6 fighters moved from Germany to Poland 1 bomber moved from Germany to Leningrad 1 infantry moved from Palestine to Eastern Mediterranean Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Eastern Mediterranean Sea Zone to Syria Combat - Germans Strategic bombing raid in Leningrad Bombing raid in Leningrad rolls: 3 and costs: 3 PUs. Bombing raid costs 3 PUs Battle in Syria Germans attack with 1 infantry British defend with 1 infantry Germans roll dice for 1 battleship in Syria, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits Middle_East roll dice for 1 infantry in Syria, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Syria 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Syria Middle_East win with no units remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0 Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Casualties for British: 1 infantry Battle in Poland Germans attack with 6 fighters and 2 infantry British defend with 1 infantry Germans roll dice for 6 fighters and 2 infantry in Poland, round 2 : 2/8 hits, 3.33 expected hits British roll dice for 1 infantry in Poland, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Poland Germans win, taking Poland from British with 6 fighters and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for British: 1 infantry Non Combat Move - Germans 1 armour moved from Yugoslavia to East Poland 9 armour moved from Germany to East Poland 1 aaGun moved from Baltic States to East Poland 6 fighters moved from Poland to Germany 1 bomber moved from Norway to Germany 1 bomber moved from Leningrad to Germany Place Units - Germans 13 infantry placed in Germany Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 32 PUs; end with 32 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Germans regular : -1.00 British regular : -0.33 Middle_East regular : 0.67G5.tsvg I’m shocked you were able to bring the Allies to a 10% chance of win with the dice being basically moot by game end. Well done. I actually think its more like 12% chance? Nuts.
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For the record: Germany has 88.5% chance Moscow on condition of 100% chance Berlin. Or 7% chance of Berlin on 100% chance for Moscow.
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@The_Good_Captain Game History
Round: 5 Actions - Russians Russians takes action: Action USAPays1PUs Action USAPays1PUs activates a trigger called: Trigger USAPays1PUs Trigger USAPays1PUs: Americans met a national objective for an additional -1 PUs; end with 50 PUs Purchase Units - Russians Russians buy 6 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; Combat Move - Russians 1 armour moved from Ukraine S.S.R. to Turkestan 1 armour moved from Karelia to Moscow 7 infantry moved from Russia to Moscow Combat - Russians Non Combat Move - Russians Place Units - Russians 6 infantry placed in Moscow Turn Complete - Russians Russians collect 21 PUs; end with 23 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Game History
Round: 5 Purchase Units - British British buy 7 infantry and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - British Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 1 infantry moved from Vichy France to Northern Italy British take Northern Italy from Germans 1 infantry moved from France to Netherlands-Belgium 1 infantry moved from Eastern France to Netherlands-Belgium 2 bombers moved from United Kingdom to Moscow 1 armour moved from United Kingdom to English Channel Sea Zone 1 armour and 1 transport moved from English Channel Sea Zone to Baltic Sea Sea Zone 1 armour moved from Baltic Sea Sea Zone to Baltic States Russians take Baltic States from Germans 1 transport moved from Baltic Sea Sea Zone to English Channel Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from United Kingdom to English Channel Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from English Channel Sea Zone to Netherlands-Belgium 1 submarine moved from Atlantic Sea Zone to British Convoy 4 Sea Zone British take British Convoy 4 Sea Zone from Germans 1 destroyer moved from Soviet Convoy Sea Zone to Atlantic Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Iran to Moscow 2 carriers and 3 fighters moved from English Channel Sea Zone to Baltic Sea Sea Zone Combat - British Non Combat Move - British Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by British from Moscow: 2 fighters EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from Moscow: 3 fighters EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Moscow: 5 fighters EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Place Units - British 7 infantry placed in United Kingdom 2 transports placed in English Channel Sea Zone Turn Complete - British British collect 37 PUs; end with 37 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Game History
Round: 5 Purchase Units - Americans Americans buy 6 infantry and 4 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Americans 6 infantry moved from United States to U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone 6 infantry and 3 transports moved from U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone to Celtic Sea Sea Zone 6 infantry moved from Celtic Sea Sea Zone to United Kingdom 2 infantry moved from Netherlands-Belgium to English Channel Sea Zone 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from English Channel Sea Zone to Baltic Sea Sea Zone 3 fighters moved from Russia to Moscow 2 infantry moved from Baltic Sea Sea Zone to Poland 3 fighters moved from Baltic Sea Sea Zone to Poland 2 infantry moved from Libya to Egypt Middle_East take Egypt from Germans Combat - Americans Battle in Poland Americans attack with 3 fighters and 2 infantry Germans defend with 2 infantry Americans roll dice for 3 fighters and 2 infantry in Poland, round 2 : 3/5 hits, 1.83 expected hits Germans roll dice for 2 infantry in Poland, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Poland 2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Poland Americans win, taking Poland from Germans with 3 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry Non Combat Move - Americans 3 fighters moved from Poland to Moscow Place Units - Americans 6 infantry placed in United States 4 transports placed in U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone Turn Complete - Americans Americans collect 46 PUs; end with 46 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Americans regular : 1.17 Germans regular : 0.33I got 91% German win but IMO you could have bought all INF with Germany last round and moved the fighters up for better odds @ Moscow. I didn’t calc the allied attack on Berlin though so not 100% sure if that would have actually worked.
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Game History
Round: 6 Purchase Units - Germans Germans buy 10 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; Combat Move - Germans 20 armour, 8 artilleries and 59 infantry moved from Belorussia to Moscow 10 armour moved from East Poland to Moscow 2 fighters moved from East Poland to Moscow 2 bombers moved from Germany to Moscow 3 infantry moved from Germany to Netherlands-Belgium 2 infantry moved from Germany to Poland 1 fighter moved from Germany to Poland 3 fighters moved from Germany to Netherlands-Belgium 1 infantry moved from East Poland to Ukraine S.S.R. Germans take Ukraine S.S.R. from Russians Combat - Germans Battle in Netherlands-Belgium Germans attack with 3 fighters and 3 infantry British defend with 1 artillery and 2 infantry Germans roll dice for 3 fighters and 3 infantry in Netherlands-Belgium, round 2 : 2/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits British roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Netherlands-Belgium, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Netherlands-Belgium 2 infantry owned by the British lost in Netherlands-Belgium 3 fighters owned by the Germans retreated 2 infantry owned by the Germans retreated to Germany British win with 1 artillery remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Casualties for British: 2 infantry Battle in Poland Germans attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry Americans defend with 1 infantry Germans roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Poland, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 infantry in Poland, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Poland Germans win, taking Poland from Americans with 1 fighter and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry Battle in Moscow Germans attack with 30 armour, 8 artilleries, 2 bombers, 2 fighters and 59 infantry British defend with 3 bombers; Americans defend with 6 fighters; Russians defend with 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 5 artilleries, 1 factory, 7 fighters and 66 infantry Russians roll AA dice in Moscow : 1/4 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 fighter owned by the Germans lost in Moscow Germans roll dice for 30 armour, 8 artilleries, 2 bombers, 1 fighter and 59 infantry in Moscow, round 2 : 35/100 hits, 30.67 expected hits Russians roll dice for 1 armour, 5 artilleries, 3 bombers, 13 fighters and 66 infantry in Moscow, round 2 : 40/88 hits, 33.17 expected hits 40 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Moscow 32 infantry owned by the Russians and 3 bombers owned by the British lost in Moscow Germans roll dice for 30 armour, 8 artilleries, 2 bombers, 1 fighter and 19 infantry in Moscow, round 3 : 22/60 hits, 24.00 expected hits Russians roll dice for 1 armour, 5 artilleries, 13 fighters and 34 infantry in Moscow, round 3 : 25/53 hits, 22.00 expected hits 6 artilleries owned by the Germans and 19 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Moscow 22 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Moscow Germans roll dice for 30 armour, 2 artilleries, 2 bombers and 1 fighter in Moscow, round 4 : 18/35 hits, 17.50 expected hits Russians roll dice for 1 armour, 5 artilleries, 13 fighters and 12 infantry in Moscow, round 4 : 14/31 hits, 14.67 expected hits 2 artilleries owned by the Germans and 12 armour owned by the Germans lost in Moscow 12 infantry owned by the Russians, 1 armour owned by the Russians and 5 artilleries owned by the Russians lost in Moscow Germans roll dice for 18 armour, 2 bombers and 1 fighter in Moscow, round 5 : 13/21 hits, 10.83 expected hits Russians roll dice for 13 fighters in Moscow, round 5 : 9/13 hits, 8.67 expected hits 9 armour owned by the Germans lost in Moscow 7 fighters owned by the Russians and 6 fighters owned by the Americans lost in Moscow Germans captures 23PUs while taking Russians capital Germans win, taking Moscow from Russians with 9 armour, 2 bombers and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 98 Casualties for Germans: 21 armour, 8 artilleries, 1 fighter and 59 infantry Casualties for Russians: 1 armour, 5 artilleries, 7 fighters and 66 infantry Casualties for British: 3 bombers Casualties for Americans: 6 fighters Non Combat Move - Germans Trigger GermanVictoryConditionsMet: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachmentGermanVictorySwitch attached to Germans Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to U.S. Eastern Coast Sea Zone: 1 submarine EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Davis Strait Sea Zone: 1 submarine EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 3 fighters moved from Netherlands-Belgium to Germany 1 fighter moved from Poland to Germany 1 fighter moved from Moscow to Belorussia 2 bombers moved from Moscow to Belorussia 1 battleship and 1 transport moved from Eastern Mediterranean Sea Zone to Sicilian Sea Sea Zone Place Units - Germans 10 infantry placed in Germany Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 30 PUs; end with 55 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Americans regular : -0.33 Russians regular : 9.50 Germans regular : 6.17 Russians AA : 0.33 British regular : 0.00G6.tsvg the reason I left one inf behind was the 50% chance you remove one of my tanks with that Russian tank in the Caucasus. I sacked a one attacker to ensure the survival of a three attacker.
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@The_Good_Captain said in TGC (Germans) vs Doman (Allies), Original Europe:
G6.tsvg the reason I left one inf behind was the 50% chance you remove one of my tanks with that Russian tank in the Caucasus. I sacked a one attacker to ensure the survival of a three attacker.
All good I get it.
On to the next game. Need to try the same playbook (for the most part) with the Ukraine bid before throwing in the towel on this version.
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I am running some calculations on you guys’ game. I am also curious to know why this game had 91% odds for a win and the other one 43%
Net TUV Round 1
EF: -8.03
Africa/Med: -3.12
Atlantic: -1.39
Total: -12.54
Net TUV Round 2
EF: +14.21
Africa/Med: +5.46
Atlantic: +13.45
Total: +33.12
Net TUV Round 3
EF: +11.87
Africa/Med: +8.04
Atlantic: +13.45
Total: +23.36
Net TUV Round 4
EF: +17.90
Africa/Med: +0.8
Atlantic: +13.45
Total: +32.15
Net TUV Round 5
EF: +17.40
Africa/Med: +1.94
Atlantic: +14.65
Total: +33.99
Net TUV Round 6
EF: +17.40
Africa/Med: +1.94
Atlantic/Western Allies: +13.95
Moscow Battle: +31.87
Total: +65.16 -
@VictoryFirst we’re pretty sure its the USA fighter spam combined with nice dice for the Allies but will hit it again to make sure. Eric used the UK carriers to hurl four fighters into Moscow that wouldnt otherwise have been there.
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@The_Good_Captain Yeah I don’t think that the fighter spam strategy will work all of the time, only when the Germans get bad dice in the Atlantic. Otherwise there will be subs floating around harassing the convoy centers, really taking a toll on the Allied economy.
The four carriers strat is interesting but I am not quite sure if it’s that more efficient than purchasing three UK fighters instead, which also gives you the option to attack Berlin. On top of that, logistics don’t really matter if Norway and Finland are taken. If you have a steady supply line, it doesn’t matter if it takes two turns or three turns to reach your target because there will be units coming each turn. However having said that, there might be some min-maxing going here where those carriers actually do allow 4 extra fighters to reach Moscow in time. Going to take a look at that.
Anyway I think a couple more games will provide some answers.
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Ok I see the US fighters from turn 4 could never have reached Moscow without the carriers, so that is net +1 fighter.
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Overall TUV swing through entire game
EF: +30
Altantic/WA: +50
Africa/Med: +37
Total: +117
(Moscow Battle: +98) -
@VictoryFirst Caveat to what’s being said here: UK buying Fighters in addition to buying enough navy to not get wiped by the German airforce proved unrealistic during testing. I tried a variant of that (a mix of US/UK Fighters/Carriers) before moving on to what I’m doing now.
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Either way, it’s good that you are trying new stuff out, that keeps the game fresh. I like to be proven wrong, so let’s play as many games as possible and find out if Europe is really as unbalanced as we think it is 😀
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@VictoryFirst As I’ve said to TGC in private chats, I am still very much of the impression that the game is massively pro-Axis. I just think that the changes to the setup are (potentially) fewer and need to focus more on the Med/Atlantic than the eastern front. More games will help 100% determine that, though.
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@DoManMacgee @VictoryFirst I was about to advocate for dropping the pre-game 12 IPC for Germany, removing a single sub from the Bay of Biscay AND removing an infantry from Romania.
If this has the affect that I think it will, I will not recommend removing the infantry from Romania and instead recommend the removal of the pre-game 12 IPC and single submarine from Bay of Biscay.
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