so true. i wonder why germans are “efficient.” they added so many bells and whistles to every thing, it hampered production. if that wasn’t enough, they built too many different aircraft and tanks to do every bitty little thing. even with small arms, they hampered themselves this way. heck, with super weapons, they didn’t stick to effective projects, and they put their assets into weapons that weren’t going to be useful until at least 1947 (V2 rocket, and 61 different anti-aircraft rocket projects.)
Just imagine a V2 rocket, fired at a moving ship…direct hit. then another, fired at an aircraft factory in london, direct hit. This could of been in 1947…Instead the nazis rushed out the V2, and it could hit somewhere in a mile’s radius.
Well a big reason why the German engineers were forced to come up with such outlandish ideas was the man himself, Hitler. Hitler had this wraped mind (as it wasn’t mentioned enough), which meant if it wasn’t intresting to him then the idea would be scapped. Problem is that many of Hitler’s ideas were unpratical, untactical, or stuck in fantasy land. I mean the Me-262 used as a bomber when it would’ve been the perfect interceptor!? The idea of using terror weapons on civilian populations like the V2 when they would’ve been much more useful on tactical or military targets (as stated above), and schemes as the Maus or P100/1500 which were clearly too big, too expensive, and just too stupid to work. Then you have the fact of Hitler’s immediate switch from offensive to defensive weapons, and you can see why the German secret weapons department was such a mess.
Well said.
Actually the more I read the more I see the Me-262s usefulness as a quick bomber. During the later stages of the development you saw the retreat of the German army from Russia. What was needed from Germany at teh time was a fast attack bomber and the Me-262 packed speed in spades. When ask if this was possible, Willy Messerschmitt(sp) answered with a definite “yes” and that equipping the Me-262 with bomb racks would only take 1-2 weeks (however there is still an argument whether the addition of bomb racks on the Me-262 slowed down development by months). Even famed inventor of the Wild Boar tactics, Colonel Hajo Herrman even commented that, “….The Jet bombers could evade Allied fighters and destroy the enemy on the ground and in their landing craft with bombs and cannon fire. Jet fighters could out-fly Allied escort fighters, shoot down bombers, and regain air superiority if deployed in large enough numbers. I was neutral, as I saw merit in both cases…”
However, this does not in anyway prove that Hitler was not a self-centered jerk. If it was up to me, I would at least made 1/2 of all Me-262s produced interceptors. That way it would at least partially solve the problem of a lack of fighter/bomber pilots. Hitler just wanted to use the Me-262 as a bomber and nothing more.
"However, this does not in anyway prove that Hitler was not a self-centered jerk. If it was up to me, I would at least made 1/2 of all Me-262s produced interceptors. "
I would have to say you are wrong. Even hitler saw his own blunder and in the december of 1944 ordered that all Me262s be interceptors, not bomber.
The Me262 had horrible bombing accuracy, and it should of stayed as a plain fighter. The Ar234 blitz was a bomber made at the same time and used the same engines. It held more bombs, and it was made for the role.
The Me262 never was made for bombing, though it had excellent armament. A 50 mm cannon could be fitted on a Me262 to blow away bombers and ships.
Now the He280, fully completed three years before the Me262 should of been given priority. It had the nosewheel undercarriage, and even capability to hold bombs, before the me262 even flew with jet engines. If given priority, the germans could of worked on making it faster, sleeker, and have a better armament. (Remeber the Bf 109 started with two Mg17 machine guns, and over the years they had 20mm cannons.)
Well you might be right about the bombing accuracy as I haven’t read the bomber preformance of it. However, I do know that the Me-262 had excellent handling at all altitudes and it’s cannon fire and rockets would’ve made quick work of planes or vehicle on the ground.
As for the bomber vs. interceptor argument, I would still use the Me-262 as an interceptor. However, if I was Hitler I would’ve at least listened to both sides of the argument instead of using putting all my efforts in a Me-262 bomber program.
He-280. Yeah I remember reading information of that plane before. The He-280 wasn’t as good as the Me-262, but it would’ve been ready in the shortest amount of time. The He-280 first flew in April 2, 1941.
Combat data for the He-280 was great. It could defeat the deadly Fw-190 with apparent and had a top speed of over 500 mph. It’s a good thing that Heinkel was never intended to make more then 18 of these craft.
It was a good thing that nazi high command ignored it! The Me262 would of been an excellent fighterbomber, but just like the FW190, it should of first served its fighter role, then be adjusted to other things.
I like the Me-262 as a interceptor to against American Flying Fortress, but I think the application of the Me-262 would’ve been as a radar equipped night fighter. You wouldn’t have to worry about those 1000+ Allied Escorts bothering you all the way to your landing spot. The only drawback I would see is the bright plume of fire coming from the Me-262’s turbojets, but who cares when you can easily outrun any Allied craft?
Yay! Reached the 400 post mark! I finally reached the limit that my role model Erich Hartmann couldn’t break. I think I celebrate my victory with a much needed vacation. :smile:
Never before have we had so little time in which to do so much
[ This Message was edited by: TG Moses VI on 2002-03-31 11:40 ]
vacation? be careful i’m catching up on you!
Ha still 200 more post to go! :smile: Maybe I might even beat Yanny to 500 though I doubt it.
nah…his vacation is over!
Well maybe I’ll set my standards higher and go for 550…
you do that…
Yeah, you’re right. But as my quote says, I only have so little time in which to do so much.
as my quote says, i’m n the mossad :smile:
Havent read down this far in the thread, but 500 is mine!
Uh what’s a Mossad? I heard of them before. But I can’t quite attach a definition to the word.
the israeli CIA…in a way…just a lot more ruthless and effective.
Oh, that’s right. Now I remember. I don’t care what other people say, but Israel has by far one of the great intelligence branches especially considering the size of the country.
