I’m not sure yet lmao. Also I’m not sure if I want to do things like national objective which will also be a big factor. Also since the ussr was almost entirely industrialised, going through a massive famine, and a control economy, I’m thinking russia will also have to pay to keep his territories fed and maintained
Tech via a Point System
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The only other thing to consider if allowing Directed Tech is the “Tech coming into effect instantly” aspect. I don’t think Directed Tech and Instant Tech could co-exist in the same game. You would have to change it so that Tech comes into effect the next turn.
I’ve always disliked Instant Tech because not only does a player get lucky on you by getting HB on some miraculous roll for a ridiculously low price, but he adds insult to injury by totally skewing battle odds on various fronts (particularly Naval) before you have a chance to react. It just throws strategy further out the window.
This effect was somewhat minimized though by Tech being Random. A player couldn’t necessarily buy a whole bunch of HBs knowing he was getting HBs. With Directed Tech that changes, and a player’s whole gameplan could revolve around getting HBs and building up to this. Therefore, to cancel this possibility, if allowing Directed tech, Tech should come into effect the following turn.
if directed tech on a game breaking weapon was attainable with one round of IPC, then I can agree.
However, the ‘game breakers’ are ranked very costly LR=25, HB=30, Mech Inf=25.If you look at an average outcome on a die being 3.5, you would need to roll 7 dice (or $35 in IPCs) to have an average chance to get 25.
It goes to 9 dice for the HB’s.This is no miraculous roll for a ridiculously low price. Also, you could see USA researcher HBs and prepare for it as they get closer.
At this time, because of their cost and the shortness of the game, I suggest we try to keep the instantaneousness of the tech that is AA50 tech rules.
Recall one of the goals is to try to miminize the house rules with respect to the AA50 tech. All this system alters is how you obtain the tech, not their capability nor when they come into play.
Game play testing may prove my thoughts to be misguided, and then we can tweak the rules.
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Initial tech points assignments:
Tech Value
War bonds: 10
Advanced Artillery: 10
Paratrooper: 20
IC: 20
Mech Inf: 25
Rockets: 20Shipyards: 15
Long Range: 25
Heavy Bombers: 30
Radar: 20
Jet Fighters: 15
Supersubs: 15Okay, I’ve playtested this (somewhat) with axis_roll, and while we didn’t get too far, before I had to call it quits due to time issues, I think that a serious reduction in cost is in order. Here are my suggested prices.
War bonds: 8
Advanced Artillery: 8
Paratrooper: 12
IC: 12
Mech Inf: 15
Rockets: 15Shipyards: 10
Long Range: 17
Heavy Bombers: 20
Radar: 12
Jet Fighters: 10
Supersubs: 10 -
I don’t think a reduction in costs is too bad since it seems AA50 games are shorter than revised (at least at this point in the games life cycle)
I am ok too with HB’s being much cheaper in light of the recent FAQ’s change to their power (best of two dice, ala LHTR). I am not so sure that your demotion of mech inf should be to 15. I think 17 is better.
Also, if we’re splitting hairs, I would like to see jet power be 12, not 10, just because ftrs are so versatile and prevelant in the game already.
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Id rather see higher numbers for the techs, and have nation specific tech advantages
The US would start with War Bonds, Mech Infantry, and Paratroopers already near completion
The UK would start with Paratroopers, and Radar within a die roll of completion (about 5 points from completion)
The Soviets would start with Increased Production about half complete, and perhaps war bonds too
Germany would start the game with Rockets and Advanced Artillery almost complete, and some points in Jet Fighters
Japan would start with a little bit in Shipyards, Long-Range, and Supersubs
Italy would start with some in Paratroopers and Shipyards
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Id rather see higher numbers for the techs, and have nation specific tech advantages
The US would start with War Bonds, Mech Infantry, and Paratroopers already near completion
The UK would start with Paratroopers, and Radar within a die roll of completion (about 5 points from completion)
The Soviets would start with Increased Production about half complete, and perhaps war bonds too
Germany would start the game with Rockets and Advanced Artillery almost complete, and some points in Jet Fighters
Japan would start with a little bit in Shipyards, Long-Range, and Supersubs
Italy would start with some in Paratroopers and Shipyards
Your slant has a more historical take on the weapons development. Personally, I prefer more of the ‘what-if’ idea,
where I can choose what’s best for the game strategically for the country I am playing.But…
This is the beauty of this system: it’s so flexible and can easily be changed on a game by game basis.
I propose the smaller numbers for games without NO’s in play or if you want a more tech heavy game.
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well you can still research any tech you want/need from the ground up.
Each nation that starts with a head start actualy had (or got very close) to that tech, so its sort of a historic boost.
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You know, that actually makes a lot of sense. That’ll encourage each nation to pursue the technology they actually already had, but not have other nations go for them…
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Germany would start the game with Rockets and Advanced Artillery almost complete, and some points in Jet Fighters
If I am not mistaken, until the battle of Malta, Germany had quite the crack paratrooper units
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no. the battle of Crete. They lost most of these on that operation
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@Imperious:
no. the battle of Crete. They lost most of these on that operation
opps, different med island
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Initial tech points assignments:
Tech Value
War bonds: 10
Advanced Artillery: 10
Paratrooper: 20
IC: 20
Mech Inf: 25
Rockets: 20Shipyards: 15
Long Range: 25
Heavy Bombers: 30
Radar: 20
Jet Fighters: 15
Supersubs: 15Okay, I’ve playtested this (somewhat) with axis_roll, and while we didn’t get too far, before I had to call it quits due to time issues, I think that a serious reduction in cost is in order. Here are my suggested prices.
War bonds: 8
Advanced Artillery: 8
Paratrooper: 12
IC: 12
Mech Inf: 15
Rockets: 15Shipyards: 10
Long Range: 17
Heavy Bombers: 20
Radar: 12
Jet Fighters: 10
Supersubs: 10These numbers are too low, ESPECIALLY for the ‘game hreaking’ tech like Long range or paratroopers.
My intent was to eliminate the random roll but not ‘guarentee’ a great roll by allowing one to target that rollHow do I know… game play testing.
USA decides that paratroopers will allow them to take Berlin. They take all $40 in their bank and buy 8 dice, giving them Paratroopers.
USA has in essence bought a weapon. UGH! This is the main reason the initial prices were at their level… no ‘buying’ a tech -
even with 20, you have 96% to get it with 8 dices…
But I agree that this numbers should not be too low. Tech games may involve a lot of money invested in tech, and reaching 20 is not such a big deal for instance (in average, this is 10ipc in 3 turns).
When a nation is earning around 50 a turn, it can be a good strat to invest 10ipc a turn in tech…
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I dislike the instant aspect of targetted tech. In Revised (LHTR), tech came active at the end of your turn. No Buying long range with a wad of cash because you needed it that turn to take out Germany.
with AA50, techs are instant again. But OOB rules makes hem random, so there’s no guarentee. The Tech By Point system allows targetting, and we’re back to the same purchase-a-win problem.
A quick thought for a fix would be a tech obtained on it’s first roll attempt is only active at the end of a turn (or after non-combat has been completed if you wanted war bonds to be active).
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Yes, the idea is quite good.
I think the main point is about techs which allow to increase your attack directly. So mainly LRA, paratroopers, heavy bomber (maybe less now that they have been reduced a lot by the new faq), mech infantry, and at a less level adv artillery, super subs and jet fighters.
For the others, it depends of the investment you need (for instance, one of the other tech at 13+ points, I do not think that a lot of people would invest 15ipc to get it in one round, so it should not change a lot of things). If it can be achieved in two rolls, this means that the tech is not so much powerfull, so delay the tech reduces again the interest people could have for it.
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Yes, the idea is quite good.
I think the main point is about techs which allow to increase your attack directly. So mainly LRA, paratroopers, heavy bomber (maybe less now that they have been reduced a lot by the new faq), mech infantry, and at a less level adv artillery, super subs and jet fighters.
Thought about that as well… listing specific techs (like you list) that would not be instant on their first roll.
Either way is fine.what is needed is more game play testing… :)
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Hey axis_roll,
I’ve been looking at this Tech via a Point System thing again and just wanted to offer a little more feedback.
Advantages of the System
1. I defnitely agree that Tech needs to be Directed (only makes sense, in a game of strategy)
2. I’d also agree, thet the better Techs should cost more
3. Also, I agree that you should be able to research more than one tech at a timeDisadvantages of the System
1. One disadavantage I see, is that players can still “buy” a Tech in one turn. If a player is planning an attack and needs a certain Tech to help it succeed, he can spend enough IPC to pretty much guarantee that Tech, which of course is cheived instantly. This can be gamebreaking especially when capitals are involved.
2. As you know, I’m not a big fan of tracking points. Players have always been used to that dynamic of “If you roll a 6, you get the Tech”. I’d be in favor of preserving this dynamic as much as possible.So what’s the alternative you ask? :-D
Well, I do have something in mind, but I’ll bring in it up in a new thread :-) -
Disadvantages of the System
1. One disadavantage I see, is that players can still “buy” a Tech in one turn. If a player is planning an attack and needs a certain Tech to help it succeed, he can spend enough IPC to pretty much guarantee that Tech, which of course is cheived instantly. This can be gamebreaking especially when capitals are involved.This one can be easily managed by using the idea given a little before : it is sufficient to delay the activation of “big” techs at the end of the turn if all the rolls have been bought this turn.
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Disadvantages of the System
1. One disadavantage I see, is that players can still “buy” a Tech in one turn. If a player is planning an attack and needs a certain Tech to help it succeed, he can spend enough IPC to pretty much guarantee that Tech, which of course is cheived instantly. This can be gamebreaking especially when capitals are involved.This one can be easily managed by using the idea given a little before : it is sufficient to delay the activation of “big” techs at the end of the turn if all the rolls have been bought this turn.
yep, no buying instant ‘killer’ techs and using them in the same round.
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OK, it’s been 8 months since this idea was first discussed and presented in my FTF player group.
We have at least 15+ games using these tech rules and there have been several modifications along the way through this game play to make them more balanced and strategic.
I am attaching the latest version of the ideas and points (and a nice way of keeping track of the tech rolls as well)
Feedback is appreciated
The attached Word document is much nicer format, but wanted to show the point values and rules without requiring people to d/l the document.
TECH via a POINT SYSTEM v2.2 revised Dec 2010
Each tech has a point value. Purchased researchers have the same cost, but are targeted for only one tech. Roll as normal for research, but add up the total rolls and apply them toward the selected tech. Once point value is reached, tech is gained (said researchers are lost/not needed). Techs achieved on the first try come into play at the end of non-combat moves (yes, war bonds are ‘instant’). This may result in achieving multiple tech per turn. This is legal under these tech rules.
Number of Researchers restriction: Only 2 tech researchers are allowed per tech. Both can be bought in one round.
Tech points assignments:
Tech Value
Chart 1:
Advanced Artillery: 12
Rockets: 20
Paratrooper: 30
IFP: 20
War bonds: 10
Mech Inf: 25Chart 2:
Supersubs: 15
Jet Fighters: 18
Shipyards: 15
Radar: 15
Long Range: 38
Heavy Bombers: 25 -
Number of Researchers restriction: Only 2 tech researchers are allowed per tech.
This is the main change here. That changes a lot of things (for instance, there is just no way to get LRA before turn 4, and in average you’ll get them on turn 6 if you invest 10ipc on turn 1 ; not sure LRA looks so interesting after that).
Do you play with Heavy or Medium bombers ? (i.e. with the one from the FAQ or not)
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