Yes, during the collect income phase meaning it is not available to spend until turn two.
Why would Japan ever wait to attack? Am I missing something?
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Bazinga!
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I think another thing is that many people don’t understand the rules completely so they use last edition’s and get inherent advantages because of this. If you use the rules to full effect then this game becomes quite balanced. And word to the wise, a J1 attack will most likely end in a loss for the Japs.
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A J1 attack will leave Japan with very few ground units on mainland Asia. If the U.K. builds as many ground units a turn as possible, Japan will run out of ground units trying to reach India. The key to this is China. China should hold the Burma Road if possible, but if Japan seems short on ground units, they should swing north and try to push Japan back there. That will force Japan to commit resources where it doesn’t want to.
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Wow, somebody is not used to thinking, or allowing others to work out their ideas on these boards. I looked over the first several pages and decided to just post again. If these kinds of posts are getting “old” for you, then please stop replying to them.
[cit]First off, you would send a sub to kill the transport at Pearl, else your getting a US scramble and loosing a bomber.[/cit]
That is a good point. A sub would be better suited for the free kill.
[cit]Secondly, you will not be getting all of the DEI area on J2 as the UK can move 2 boats to SZ 37 & 42 to block off Sum, which just happens to be in range of 6 allied planes that can land on it turn 1, up to 7 more on turn 2 (not saying they should, just saying they could).[/cit]
But I landed many Bombers and Fighters on Kwangsi. The Bombers destroy the lone boat in 42, and the Fighters take out the lone boat in 37, allowing my transports free access to whatever.
And as you point out, the UK could land planes on Sumatra instead of reinforcing China, but doesn’t that help my mainland invasion?
If they do concentrate planes on Sumatra, then I suppose I could turn more of my attention to that island. I do have three transports and a small navy in the area, and those 7 Fighters are from two different nations, so their attacking power isn’t as great.[cit]Third, you best be getting a mainland factory on J2 unless you want china to stay alive for a good long time. And you best hope the UK player doesn’t help china by stacking the daylights out of Yunnan on UK2.[/cit]
And? Why wouldn’t I get a mainland factory? Sorry for not pointing out the obvious there. If the UK player “stacked the daylights” out of Yunnan, then that means Malaya is Infantry free, no? If they try to keep infantry on both, then I’d hardly call that “stacking the daylights” out of Yunnan.
[cit]Fourth, and the worst, on J3 you will be able to take all of the DEI, the problem is on US3 there starting fleet can hit DEI as well. Now they may have to sacrifice a transport to take an island, but, you’ll be trading down there for the remainder of the game. Then it becomes a race, take out India before the US takes over the DEI, or you loose your income advantage that you never really had.[/cit]
So how exactly would the America player slip past my Caroline fleet in timely manner? If they did try to go around Australia, wouldn’t the Japanese player see that coming and be able to break off the appropriate amount of ships to deal with them?
[cit]Fifth, and last, is this not the same J1 i’ve seen posted several times by Maher C and originally by Frontovik? Oh no, his was better. He used planes against ANZAC so he didn’t expose any boats. And he knew to send a sub to Pearl.[/cit]
If you use planes against ANZAC, then how exactly are you to take the Philippines? They are the offensive firepower in the above outlined plan. It holds America down to 55 Production instead of 62.
How would someone know that Maher C or Frontovik had posted this “several times”? They’re not on the first several pages of the forum.
Perhaps this conversation is old because you yourself keep posting about it. Isn’t that your post about the economics of a J1 attack just 2 days ago? Not that subject again!
And I doubt you’ve seen the last of someone’s J1 attack plan. Please try and refrain from being a condescending prick for the next guy.
Bazinga, indeed.
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Would building a couple of small factories offset the lack of mainland presence? Once Japan’s increases, it would be easy to put 3 Infantry and 3 Tanks on the mailand per turn. Combined with their airforce and they could slowly grind away to India. Any left over money could go towards holding off America.
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IMO it depends on how quickly you can get it into operation. 2x IC on the mainland is 24 IPC and THEN you start putting out troops. Meanwhile the US is making 55/turn and pumping it directly into the Pearl/Australian/DEI line.
IMO the best US strat early on is “hit 'em where they ain’t”. And yes, you can have a nice fleet at the Carolines, but with the US fleet intact and 55 IPCs worth of reinforcements its going to be tough going standing that off for long without massive expenditure yourself (which is harder to do if you are pumping early IPCs into ICs and massed ground troops).
Pretty much my experience is that one Japan’s initial fleet is whittled down she can no longer protect everything she needs to protect while fighting the ground war against China/UK. The J1 attack puts you considerably ‘behind schedule’ in mopping up the mainland (in exchange for slowing the Allies down at sea). The downside I see here is that the US is going come knocking FAR before you are done in Asia.
The goal of the later attack is to have that mainland well in hand before having to deal with the US en masse. The J1 attack disperses and dilutes the IJN a bit (depending on losses) while simultaneously allowing the US to come in full tilt at the same time. I’m not saying it’s doomed by any means, but the short-term payoff doesnt seem as worth it to me as the ‘slow and steady’. YMMV
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To be fair, your post title says “…Am I missing something?”
You missed the 30 other threads discussing J1 attacks. Vareel and I have no love lost, but I have to defend him/her on this one. As I post this there are J1 threads on Page 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 11.
Saying they weren’t on the front page when they are on 4 of the first 6 pages in a forum is just laziness.
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So looking at the incomes for both sides, Japan is only down by 28 Production to begin with, and considering the size advantage they start out with in terms of Total Unit Vaule, they can stand to wait and better position themselves rather than pull the trigger prematurely.
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I would say that that is a pretty good summary. How long you wait depends on what opportunities present themselves. J3 would be ‘ideal’ for me, but giving the Brits the 37 IPCs and letting them escape with one TR is something I’d prefer to avoid if possible. I’m thinking of a J2 attack next time depending on what the US does.
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Wow, somebody is not used to thinking, or allowing others to work out their ideas on these boards. I looked over the first several pages and decided to just post again. If these kinds of posts are getting “old” for you, then please stop replying to them.
But I landed many Bombers and Fighters on Kwangsi. The Bombers destroy the lone boat in 42, and the Fighters take out the lone boat in 37, allowing my transports free access to whatever.
So how exactly would the America player slip past my Caroline fleet in timely manner? If they did try to go around Australia, wouldn’t the Japanese player see that coming and be able to break off the appropriate amount of ships to deal with them?
Perhaps this conversation is old because you yourself keep posting about it. Isn’t that your post about the economics of a J1 attack just 2 days ago? Not that subject again!
And I doubt you’ve seen the last of someone’s J1 attack plan. Please try and refrain from being a condescending prick for the next guy.
Bazinga, indeed.
Ok I have no problem with people thinking and what not, and you are the one who came here acting like a condenscending prick to begin with so I responded in kind. As far as my post on the subject I examined the actual direct income change that a J1 can present to see its true value, and I found it lacking. I did not post some ‘here is my J1 all you people who don’t attack on J1 suck’ thread.
Now for your ‘plan’. Just because you kill those boats does NOT mean you get to go to SZ 41 during your combat move, which means you do NOT get all of DEI turn two.
As for US getting there, turn 1 move to pearl purchase 1 trans/1 DD. Turn 2 move to SZ54 or to SZ 63 if your worried about japan’s fleet at carolines and land planes on New Zealand. Along with moving your purchased DD/trans to SZ 51 and dropping your brand new destroyers and another transport. With this setup the fleet at Carolines is outta range of your reinforcements.
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Whackamatt, I would like to know when you predict the Japanese will be done with China and India if you attack on J1 as you outline, and the UK buys almost exclusively infantry with just a couple artillery thrown in. Lets say you think you can be celebrating We Love the Emperor Day in Calcutta on turn 6 (I don’t have a number, I’m just throwing it out there). Can the US lock down San Fran, Honolulu and Sydney before then and destroy the IJN at Carolines? Making the Japanese investments in Asia (two ICs + several armor and infantry per turn) may give you a solid hold on Asia but the expense may still put you woefully behind the US and ANZACs. Then there is the final problem. The Japanese player can OWN Asia and it won’t matter if the US and ANZACs can take the home island. I’m not trying to shoot your plan down, I am just trying to see if you have thought this out a bit further. It is easy to look at an early Japanese move and think, “this is over.” But that is the same way it was on December 7th when they hit everything. I think the Allies will still have quite a bit of fight left in them.
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