OOB Oysteilo +40 v Gamerman01 with tech - UHD map

[gamerman01]

@oysteilo said in OOB Oysteilo +40 v Gamerman01 with tech - UHD map:

I am not sure what to say here. Regardless of how we do this it wont be right. I can’t believe that this happened! It is unreal that the green men in a green territory isnt counted!

I think I got it. Here is a summary.

Tank and artillery that survived Korea are removed. The tank that was removed was the one that activated Mongolia by combat move on Amur and Buryatia.

AA moved to Cha instead of Manchuria.
Tac that went to Manchuria goes to Kiangsi
Transport that took FIC with 2 infantry instead takes Korea with infantry, mech. Transport that noncommed to Kiangsi takes 2 infantry instead of infantry, mech

Japan income reduced by 4, 2 from Russia, 2 from FIC. All ownership of territories reverted.

I see drawbacks and benefits for each of us, but I think it’s fair. While one might complain that I saved my transport at 36, it makes sense because I needed to take Korea and that would be the transport I would do it with.

Here is the file,
J4 edits because of Triple A glitch on Korea.tsvg

---

Thanks a lot, Triple A. First time I’ve ever seen anything like that. Almost makes me want to test the same scenario in the map we’ve used for many years, whatever that map is called.
A headache for both of us.

[gamerman01]

And to lighten the mood, here is the convoy roll for US3 for Korea

[dice 14d6<=3]

[dicebot]

14d6<=3: 4, 4, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 6, 5, 2, 2, 4; Hits: 9

[gamerman01]

15 damage, nothing gets back to California.

[gamerman01]

@oysteilo said in OOB Oysteilo +40 v Gamerman01 with tech - UHD map:

As a consequence I offer you to possition transport(s) or possibly other boats in “liberal” positons if that is of any interest. Not much, I know.

I think we understand each other well enough. I definitely don’t want a couple units to make a problem between us or even take away from this crazy (UHD tech) game at all.

I appreciate the generosity, if I understand you correctly, and did change the one loaded transport which I think should be OK. Trying to keep changes to a minimum. Glad you also see that it is a quite complicated situation since we are trying to respect die rolls, including the horrible J4 dice, and trying to look at many different angles of the consequences of this heinous glitch by Triple A.

I think we’re intact and feeling good enough going forward.
I like that we’re trying to keep dice, like not going back to J3 and re-rolling and then replaying every turn.

Just feel free to tell me if I’m not understanding you - like I said, despite my competitive instincts I prize mutually enjoyable play over winning at all costs and I know you do too

I think it’s awesome that you are diving in to all these details and trying to work it out with me

Have a great Monday!

[oysteilo]

I am happy with your posted map. I hope you are too!

This looks like a good way to go forward. Thank you for figuring out the error, I missed it 100%

[gamerman01]

Really glad to hear

[gamerman01]

Just a final note. Even with arty and armor down you are still at +21 at the Korea battle. Expected outcome is +6, so it is still a good result for you.

I think this might make you feel better, too. And I can’t resist the analysis.

It was lucky for me to lose 1/6 on AA. The average (+6, like you said) includes all the possibilities of more than 1 plane getting hit by AA.

I ran a calc on an old and reliable calculator I have. I ran it with no AA and took one Jap plane off. The median result (after taking 1/6 AA fire) is that I end up with 1 or 2 ground units without taking off any more planes.

If you follow what I’m saying, the +6 expected outcome actually goes up after the actual 1/6 AA result, so would be closer to the +21.

Looking again, after you rolled a couple extra hits in the first round, the second and third round were poor rolls for the defender. Combined with a 1/6 AA that is actually good for the attacker even though it is the expected number of hits,

We came to a very fair conclusion, I think 🧐

[gamerman01]

One of your posts from yesterday may have been lost.

I was replying to your statement (see previous post) and it didn’t appear to post. Then I noticed it seemed to have over-written a post of yours, so my post was assigned to you. So I re-posted and deleted the messed up post, which might have been something that you had said.

Just full disclosure - sorry, I don’t know what I misclicked

[gamerman01]

Oh my, I am really belaboring this messed up battle, but just saw that the history shows 2 USA infantry in the casualties at the end of the battle summary. If you click through round by round, it never took 2 USA infantry off, but there they are at the end. Bizarre. And when I decided to attack, it was based on the less favorable calculation that did include the 2 US infantry because they didn’t disappear from the engine until the battle of Zone 6, and of course I made the decision and the calc before the conduct combat phase.

Apparently it got confused by the battle of Zone 6 and the 2 infantry on Korea, who knows why.

But there they are again at the end of the Korea battle?! Just, what???

[oysteilo]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 4

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: UHD World War II Global

Game History

Round: 4

    Research Technology - Americans
        Americans spend 10 on tech rolls
            Americans roll 2,6 and gets 1 hit
        Americans removing all Technology Tokens after successful research.
        Americans discover Heavy Bomber

    Activate Technology - Americans
        Americans activating Heavy Bomber

    Purchase Units - Americans

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

[oysteilo]

yeah. I agree with everything you write above, its really weird. I had all sorted out, but now I have heavy bombers so I migh take a moment to praise the dice goods and see what else they can rin to my mind

[gamerman01]

I’m still not used to cheap 12 IPC bombers and now America has heavies?!

Well, you certainly earned them, so many tech misses!

[oysteilo]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 4

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: UHD World War II Global

Game History

Round: 4

    Research Technology - Americans
        Americans spend 10 on tech rolls
            Americans roll 2,6 and gets 1 hit
        Americans removing all Technology Tokens after successful research.
        Americans discover Heavy Bomber

    Activate Technology - Americans
        Americans activating Heavy Bomber

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 5 submarines and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 0 techTokens; 

    Politics - Americans
        Trigger Americans Friendly With Mongolians activates a trigger called: Trigger Allies Friendly With Mongolians

    Combat Move - Americans
        3 submarines moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone

    Combat - Americans

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

[oysteilo]

submerge or fight

[gamerman01]

Fight round 1

Can’t give you instructions on different possibilities because I’ve been playing Classic and you may not need them anyway
I’ll check back

[oysteilo]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 4

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: UHD World War II Global

Game History

Round: 4

    Research Technology - Americans
        Americans spend 10 on tech rolls
            Americans roll 2,6 and gets 1 hit
        Americans removing all Technology Tokens after successful research.
        Americans discover Heavy Bomber

    Activate Technology - Americans
        Americans activating Heavy Bomber

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 5 submarines and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 0 techTokens; 

    Politics - Americans
        Trigger Americans Friendly With Mongolians activates a trigger called: Trigger Allies Friendly With Mongolians

    Combat Move - Americans
        3 submarines moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone

    Combat - Americans
        Japanese scrambles 3 units out of Japan to defend against the attack in 6 Sea Zone
        Battle in 6 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 3 submarines
            Japanese defend with 1 carrier, 3 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 transport
                Americans roll dice for 3 submarines in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
            Units damaged: 1 carrier owned by the Japanese
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 carrier and 1 transport in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 submarine owned by the Americans lost in 6 Sea Zone

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Americans regular : 0.00
Japanese regular : 0.50

Savegame

[oysteilo]

one hit each round 1, submerge or fight?

[gamerman01]

Hit carrier, sub keeps fightin’

Now I can wrap my head around it a little better.
Sub never submerges, and take it next

And no I never considered a sub only attack

[oysteilo]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 4

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: UHD World War II Global

Game History

Round: 4

    Research Technology - Americans
        Americans spend 10 on tech rolls
            Americans roll 2,6 and gets 1 hit
        Americans removing all Technology Tokens after successful research.
        Americans discover Heavy Bomber

    Activate Technology - Americans
        Americans activating Heavy Bomber

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 5 submarines and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 0 techTokens; 

    Politics - Americans
        Trigger Americans Friendly With Mongolians activates a trigger called: Trigger Allies Friendly With Mongolians

    Combat Move - Americans
        3 submarines moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone

    Combat - Americans
        Japanese scrambles 3 units out of Japan to defend against the attack in 6 Sea Zone
        Battle in 6 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 3 submarines
            Japanese defend with 1 carrier, 3 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 transport
                Americans roll dice for 3 submarines in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
            Units damaged: 1 carrier owned by the Japanese
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 carrier and 1 transport in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 submarine owned by the Americans lost in 6 Sea Zone
                Americans roll dice for 2 submarines in 6 Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 6 Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 carrier and 1 transport in 6 Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 2 submarines in 6 Sea Zone, round 4 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 6 Sea Zone, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                1 submarine owned by the Japanese lost in 6 Sea Zone
                Japanese roll dice for 1 carrier and 1 transport in 6 Sea Zone, round 4 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 submarine owned by the Americans lost in 6 Sea Zone
                Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 6 Sea Zone, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 carrier and 1 transport in 6 Sea Zone, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 6 Sea Zone, round 6 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 carrier owned by the Japanese lost in 6 Sea Zone
                Japanese roll dice for 1 transport in 6 Sea Zone, round 6 : 0/0 hits, 0.00 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 6 Sea Zone, round 7 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 transport in 6 Sea Zone, round 7 : 0/0 hits, 0.00 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 6 Sea Zone, round 8 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 transport owned by the Japanese lost in 6 Sea Zone
            Japanese and Americans reach a stalemate
            . Battle score for attacker is 17
            Casualties for Americans: 2 submarines
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 carrier, 1 submarine and 1 transport
        Moving scrambled unit from 6 Sea Zone  back to originating territory: Japan
        Moving scrambled unit from 6 Sea Zone  back to originating territory: Japan
        Moving scrambled unit from 6 Sea Zone  back to originating territory: Japan

    Non Combat Move - Americans

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Americans regular : 0.33
Japanese regular : 0.17

Savegame