so far i don’t see a point of neutrals. what do they have ipcs or something? :?
also will the Swiss have a big garrison? :?
edit: horrible spelling
On the previous games (with the exception of Classic) you couldn’t invade neutrals and they gave no income but on Pacific 40 you can invade them and some give income. Since Europe 40 should use the same rules neutrals should be able to be invaded.
I hope a improvement in neutral rules for AA40E. I hate ACME walls and also is horrible attacking part of a country or the colonies and the rest of the country cannot do nothing (ex.: Mongolia, Spain or Portugal)
Some neutrals lie in vital strategic areas, for example Turkey as springboard for Germany into Asia; or Spain as a foothold in Europe for the Americans.
Almost every country was considered a target for invasion by at least one alliance, and very few survived the entire war without becoming involved.
Don’t know yet how pro or anti will work; this seems a rather complicated jump, when a simple neutrals join the alliance opposed to the one which violates their neutrality rule would suffice.
Some neutrals lie in vital strategic areas, for example Turkey as springboard for Germany into Asia; or Spain as a foothold in Europe for the Americans.
Almost every country was considered a target for invasion by at least one alliance, and very few survived the entire war without becoming involved.
Don’t know yet how pro or anti will work; this seems a rather complicated jump, when a simple neutrals join the alliance opposed to the one which violates their neutrality rule would suffice.
Could be simply that you halve (or perhaps double) the printed number of combatants on that country based on how the neutral aligns itself. For example A proAxis Spain might have half the number of infantry show up if the axis invade, but if allies land they get the full welcome.
Or perhaps a pro-side neutral allows free transit through that space during the non combat phase for that side. Either side can invade if they choose to do so.
I’d hope Sweden is reflected accurately as pro axis neutral as well. Sweden allowed Germany to transit between Norway and Finland from '40-'43 and kept the German industry going with steel and ore. Admittedly, they were surrounded between Germany, beligerant Finland, and an invaded Norway & Denmark, but it was still pretty cagey. Some Swedes I’ve met seemed to feel the same, describing the state as “Neutral” in air-quotes.
Some neutrals lie in vital strategic areas, for example Turkey as springboard for Germany into Asia; or Spain as a foothold in Europe for the Americans.
Almost every country was considered a target for invasion by at least one alliance, and very few survived the entire war without becoming involved.
Don’t know yet how pro or anti will work; this seems a rather complicated jump, when a simple neutrals join the alliance opposed to the one which violates their neutrality rule would suffice.
Since Larry is selling us Iran(or as he says persia) as a Pro-allied country I have a feeling that most contries will be neutral neutrals while just a few are pro-axis or pro-allied neutrals. I am guessing that while you dont get the IPCs from countries that are leaning yourway you are allowed to more troops through them, so for instance Bulgaria would be pro-axis. Spain however would not be pro-axis since they did not allow axis forces to be based in their country. Adlertag says that German equipment was moved through Sweden so perhaps Sweden will be pro-axis.
certainly their wont be anything silly like a country resisting invasion less.
certainly their wont be anything silly like a country resisting invasion less.
pfff. no more silly than China’s ACME wall, strategic bombers downed by infantry, or subs not being able to assign shots. It still punishes/delays the attacking power and it could easily represent a population being more resistent to a regime change from one power or another.
I suspect it will be more like a free non combat movement through that space.
As far as Spain, they were pro-axis as far as a country can go short of allowing free transit through. A Spanish volunteer infantry division and air force squadron fought against the Soviets for the Axis.
I suspect it will be more like a free non combat movement through that space.
not free movement, it still cost movement points, just unhidered by that nations defence forces.
I suspect it will be more like a free non combat movement through that space.
not free movement, it still cost movement points, just unhidered by that nations defence forces.
yes, that’s what I meant. free movement, as in no resistence, not free movement as in the space doesn’t count. That wouldn’t make any sense. I can see how that would have been misinterpreted though, my apologies for the confusion.
Iraq is a problem:
A covertly pro-Axis neutral (after march '40) which allows UK units transit and air bases, but which falls to an openly pro-Axis revolution in 1941 later overthrown by a British invasion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Iraqi_War
Iran certainly was not pro-Allied, whatever Larry says:
Iraq is a problem:
A covertly pro-Axis neutral (after march '40) which allows UK units transit and air bases, but which falls to an openly pro-Axis revolution in 1941 later overthrown by a British invasion:
Hmmmm… could simply be not neutral, start as british with no units in it so the axis can take it quickly (revolution) and leave it to the british to overthrow.
All this neutrality mumbo jumbo probably won’t occur until after the game is heading one way or another anyway or unless Germany is hurting for cash in which case Sweden & Switzerland will be safe and secure bets. I doubt Japan will ever bother the Mongol hordes until after they’ve pacified the Chinese. Spain is too vulnerable to attack. The allies probably won’t ever be so strapped that they need what little Ireland can supply. And if there’s a way through the MidEast that doesn’t involve attacking several Neutral then it probably won’t matter there either. If however the only way to get to Egypt to India or Egypt to the Caucusus, well… I grant that the Axis will probably end up trying that road.
Iraq is a problem:
A covertly pro-Axis neutral (after march '40) which allows UK units transit and air bases, but which falls to an openly pro-Axis revolution in 1941 later overthrown by a British invasion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Iraqi_War
Iran certainly was not pro-Allied, whatever Larry says:
yes both these situations seem to not fit very well with Larry’s rules, however it does not conclict that much with the historical accauracy of the game as a pro-axis Iraq will encourage a UK invasion and a pro-allied iran will simulate an easy takeover by the UK and the Soviets.
I am wondering what Larry is going to decide Yugoslavia is. I am guessing it will be neutral neutral, although one reason contributing the German attack was its switch from a pro-german goverment to an anti-german one. Yugoslavia had a large army so it is rather an important question.
I don’t believe there will be a historical assessment to teurality in the game - it will just add flavor…
Spain: Franco was a clever politican -he used Germany and Italy in the SCW, but refused to take an active part in the war (allowing the Blue legion is not something considered active participation - I belive therwe were French, Dutch Belgian, Norwegian volunteers fighting for Germany/against communism). - Ingame I think Spain will be a true nutral, because it never delared war on Germany.
Same for Sweden and Switzerland
Turkey might be true neutral too, but maybe it will have some triggers to join in if Russia get bashed…
I think true neutrals might never declare war, but can be attacked by either side (attack on a neutra could cause pro-xy neutrals joining the cause of one side or another)
for example Bulgaria : pro Axis, if Germany attacks Greece then Bulgaria will become Axis…
Romania (Hungary) pro axis - will join when Germany attacks Russia
Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria are the classics ;)
Portugal sided early with the Allies IIRC
Iraq/Iran might (should) be pro Axis, but may not become active easily and an attack ON them should be possible without penalties for the Allies
Ireland - maybe true neutral (depending on mapsize Irland could be a nice staging point for the Luftwaffe ;)
Yugoslavia might be pro Allies - can’t think of a trigger atm
South America (if its part of the game, I think the only pro Axis countries could be Argentine (rivalry with Brazil -which should be pro Allies…) an Paraguay/Uruguay. - others could be True NEutrals but easily swayed to the Allies side…
OK I’m trying to recall… but as always don’t have the rules on me… in AAP40, Mongolia doesn’t have any IPC value does it?
Maybe the ACME walls will only exist for Neutrals who’s territory lacks IPC value.
Maybe.
That’s right. There are no IPC values associated with the Mongolian territories, only a number indicating the amount of infantry any potential invader would have to fight.
The only reason to invade Mongolia (and other E40 neutrals, if the rules stay the same) would be to cut behind enemy forces via an unexpected route. I can see some occasions where Japan might want to do this to flank the Chinese, but with amount of firepower on Japan’s side and the rules restricting China’s movements, I think it will only rarely be utilised.
So far it seems that the possibility of invading neutrals has only been included to satisfy a very vocal minority of players who were begging for it. Time will tell if E40 does something more interesting with these rules, or whether the neutral countries on that map will actually prove to be strategically viable targets for invasion.
That being said, I’m all for having more gaming options than fewer; that includes the possibility of invading neutrals. In fact, I think that in Global '40 invading Manchuria will be a very cost-effective way for the Japanese to tie up Russian resources, as they’ll be compelled to protect their exposed frontier territories from an unchallenged invasion… however, this projection of mine is contingent on whatever political rules it turns out that Larry has got cooked up for that game.
So far it seems that the possibility of invading neutrals has only been included to satisfy a very vocal minority of players who were begging for it. Time will tell if E40 does something more interesting with these rules, or whether the neutral countries on that map will actually prove to be strategically viable targets for invasion.
Roger that. I think the value of the Neutral rules will only be realized with AAE40…. Spain, Turkey, Saudi…
Neutrals are countries that are neither Axis or Allies and don’t like either of them just passing through.
@Brain:
Neutrals are countries that are neither Axis or Allies and don’t like either of them just passing through.
hmmm OK I’m utterly wretched at citing where I got things from but I swear somebody said that some of the Neutrals would have IPC values….
Almost every country has some kind of resources.
@Brain:
Almost every country has some kind of resources.
OK this from Kreighund on whether or not Neutrals will be revenue-neutral :lol: like in AAP40.
It just applies to the neutrals on the Pacific map. Some of the ones on the Europe map will have IPC values.
