Test summary from TripleA, engine version: 2.7.14861, time: 21:29:40
Savegame
1914 TGC (CP) vs. Yamato (Entente), RR, no bid
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:+1:
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Game History
Round: 12 Puchase Units - French French buy 1 artillery and 9 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - French 11 artilleries and 112 infantry moved from Lorraine to Burgundy 1 artillery and 5 infantry moved from Picardy to Burgundy 1 artillery and 9 infantry moved from Paris to Burgundy 1 fighter moved from Lorraine to Paris 1 infantry moved from Smyrna to Constantinople Combat - French Battle in Burgundy French attack with 13 artilleries and 126 infantry Germans defend with 15 artilleries, 3 fighters, 75 infantry and 2 tanks French roll dice for 13 artilleries and 126 infantry in Burgundy, round 2 : 52/139 hits, 50.67 expected hits Germans roll dice for 15 artilleries, 3 fighters, 75 infantry and 2 tanks in Burgundy, round 2 : 57/95 hits, 48.83 expected hits 52 infantry owned by the Germans and 57 infantry owned by the French lost in Burgundy Germans and French reach a stalemate . Battle score for attacker is -15 Casualties for French: 57 infantry Casualties for Germans: 52 infantry Combat Move - French Place Units - French 1 artillery and 9 infantry placed in Paris Turn Complete - French French collect 25 PUs; end with 25 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
French regular : 1.33 Germans regular : 8.17 -
Game History
Round: 12 Puchase Units - British British buy 2 artilleries, 13 infantry and 1 tank; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - British 5 units repaired. 9 artilleries, 9 infantry and 5 tanks moved from Constantinople to Bulgaria British take Bulgaria from Ottomans 4 infantry moved from Mesopotamia to SZ 20 3 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from Ankara to Constantinople 4 infantry and 2 transports moved from SZ 20 to SZ 21 4 infantry moved from SZ 21 to Bulgaria 1 transport moved from SZ 16 to SZ 20 2 infantry moved from Mesopotamia to SZ 20 2 infantry moved from SZ 20 to Constantinople 1 battleship moved from SZ 16 to SZ 20 3 artilleries and 13 infantry moved from Lorraine to Burgundy 3 artilleries, 15 infantry and 1 tank moved from Persia to Sevastopol 2 artilleries, 11 infantry and 1 tank moved from India to Persia 3 artilleries, 3 infantry and 1 tank moved from Mesopotamia to Sevastopol Combat - British Battle in Burgundy British attack with 3 artilleries and 13 infantry; French loiter and taunt Germans defend with 15 artilleries, 3 fighters, 23 infantry and 2 tanks British roll dice for 3 artilleries and 13 infantry in Burgundy, round 2 : 7/16 hits, 6.33 expected hits Germans roll dice for 15 artilleries, 3 fighters, 23 infantry and 2 tanks in Burgundy, round 2 : 23/43 hits, 22.83 expected hits 7 infantry owned by the Germans, 3 artilleries owned by the British and 13 infantry owned by the British lost in Burgundy Germans win with 15 artilleries, 3 fighters, 16 infantry and 2 tanks remaining. Battle score for attacker is -30 Casualties for British: 3 artilleries and 13 infantry Casualties for Germans: 7 infantry Combat Move - British Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Burgundy: 7 infantry EDIT: Adding units owned by British to Burgundy: 3 artilleries and 13 infantry EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Place Units - British 2 artilleries, 13 infantry and 1 tank placed in India Turn Complete - British British collect 56 PUs; end with 56 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Germans regular : 0.17 British regular : 0.67 -
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Game History
Round: 12 Puchase Units - Italians Italians buy 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Italians 10 artilleries and 13 infantry moved from Rome to Tuscany Italians take Tuscany from AustroHungarians 1 infantry moved from Constantinople to Bulgaria 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 transport moved from SZ 17 to SZ 19 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 transport moved from SZ 19 to SZ 17 Combat - Italians Combat Move - Italians Place Units - Italians 3 infantry placed in Rome Turn Complete - Italians Italians collect 11 PUs; end with 11 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
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Game History
Round: 12 Puchase Units - Americans Americans buy 8 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Americans 6 infantry moved from Spain to Bordeaux 1 battleship moved from SZ 7 to SZ 14 3 transports moved from SZ 14 to SZ 2 10 infantry moved from United States of America to SZ 1 10 infantry and 5 transports moved from SZ 1 to SZ 14 3 transports moved from SZ 2 to SZ 1 10 infantry moved from SZ 14 to Spain Combat Move - Americans Place Units - Americans 8 infantry placed in United States of America Turn Complete - Americans Americans collect 24 PUs; end with 24 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
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That dice in Burgundy… :angry:
US Turn 12 Complete 1914 Game 5.tsvg
Please answer my question:
You talked about how you shouldn’t withdraw from Moscow and avoid the Revolution, if, among other things, the Russian army is too small.
How small is too small? How about 13 infantry, 15 artillery, and 1 fighter in Moscow, and no units anywhere else? Thank you!
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@SuperbattleshipYamato said in 1914 TGC (CP) vs. Yamato (Entente), RR, no bid:
That dice in Burgundy… :angry:
US Turn 12 Complete 1914 Game 5.tsvg
Please answer my question:
You talked about how you shouldn’t withdraw from Moscow and avoid the Revolution, if, among other things, the Russian army is too small.
How small is too small? How about 13 infantry, 15 artillery, and 1 fighter in Moscow, and no units anywhere else? Thank you!
I’m having trouble understanding the question. Did I say this in the video? I’ll take a stab at the subject - the Russian player should try to bleed the CP player for as much troops and gear as possible. If they don’t fight, they leave themselves open to death by “bear hug”.
Otherwise, if the CP have fought with the Russians in one or more large, set piece battles, it is most likely in the CP interest to capture all the territories of Russia except Sevastopol and Kazakhstan.
The most useful aspect of the Revolution rule is that it keeps the Russian player near their capital (if they charge off towards the Ottomans or Austria they will be “disappeared” quite quickly by a savvy CP player via the Revolution) and it forces them to defend their capital inefficiently.
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From direct messages:
"I’m going to go out on a limb and say - I think you are trying to recreate the example of the Russian army evacuating the capital as is demonstrated in the Russian Revolution youtube video. If you are/were trying to recreate that, here is why I feel very strongly that this move is not good in the game we are currently playing.
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the move demonstrated in the video has the CP trying to bear hug the capital - that is not happening in our case as the CP have not hugged the capital - there is no bear hug
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in the video, the Russian army is in extremely good shape. for that move to hit max effect, youd want a large russian army on the map - the current russian army is not large as it has fought many, many battles. there is very little to save at this point in the game"
You put other reasons that I have already found to be true.
My question is mainly whether 13 infantry, 15 artillery, and 1 fighter in Moscow count as “very little” or too little to justify escaping to Karelia.
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Assuming all the other three points you listed were true.
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@SuperbattleshipYamato I can see I am speaking to a specific game we played. I don’t remember the game. If you can find the game and repost here, I can better understand the context.
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I’m asking for help on a different game.
My question is simply:
If you’re cornered in Moscow, the Central Powers are trying to do a Bearhug (or at least I assume they are, they have a big army in Livonia and Ukraine) the Revolution will activate if you don’t do anything in this turn, Sevastopol is in Allied hands, and you can withdraw to Karelia, if you have 13 infantry, 15 artillery, and 1 fighter in Moscow, should you withdraw and save the army and give up the capital, or should you stay put and defend to the death in Moscow?
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@SuperbattleshipYamato I understand this is a different game. That’s why I was asking for it for reference. I understand that your question is simple. The answer is not. The answer is almost always going to be complex and so that’s why I was asking for the game file.
My answer, without seeing the map, is that “it depends”. I’m assuming the capital is contested. Maybe the CP army in the capital can be crushed by the Russians. Maybe the russians can create a minimum amount of contested zones to put off the Revolution. Maybe its best to give the capital up and race northward into finland and hold out there for as long as possible and drag the CP armies northward and away from the rest of the fighting in the game. I would have to look at the specific health of the Russian army (which you’ve described) and the quantity/quality and position of the CP armies (which you have not described) before I make a judgment call on this.
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Sorry that I wasn’t clear.
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@SuperbattleshipYamato said in 1914 TGC (CP) vs. Yamato (Entente), RR, no bid:
Here it is:
Okay I see it. I would buy 5 infantry and 1 artillery. For the movement phase, I would send two infantry into Belarus and take everything else and slam it into Livonia. This would avoid the revolution for one more turn and rip up the German army in Livonia. On the AH turn they will likely take the Russian capital. On the subsequent Russian turn, back all the survivors into Karelia for a final stand that pulls the CP armies up north.
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Thank you so much! I really appreciate it. :+1: :+1: :+1: :+1: :+1: :+1: :+1:
Now let’s get back to our game. :)
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Game History
Round: 13 Puchase Units - AustroHungarians AustroHungarians buy 13 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - AustroHungarians 4 units repaired. Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by AustroHungarians from Marseilles: 10 infantry EDIT: Adding units owned by Neutral_True to Burgundy: 10 infantry EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 24 infantry moved from Serbia to Bulgaria 1 artillery and 11 infantry moved from Vienna to Trieste 4 infantry moved from Trieste to Venice 2 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from Trieste to Serbia 10 artilleries, 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 4 tanks moved from Marseilles to Piedmont 2 infantry moved from Venice to Piedmont 1 infantry moved from Finland to Karelia Combat - AustroHungarians Battle in Bulgaria AustroHungarians attack with 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 24 infantry British defend with 9 artilleries, 13 infantry and 5 tanks; Italians defend with 1 infantry AustroHungarians roll dice for 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 24 infantry in Bulgaria, round 2 : 7/27 hits, 10.00 expected hits British roll dice for 9 artilleries, 14 infantry and 5 tanks in Bulgaria, round 2 : 14/28 hits, 12.33 expected hits 14 infantry owned by the AustroHungarians, 1 infantry owned by the Italians and 6 infantry owned by the British lost in Bulgaria British and AustroHungarians reach a stalemate . Battle score for attacker is -21 Casualties for AustroHungarians: 14 infantry Casualties for British: 6 infantry Casualties for Italians: 1 infantry Combat Move - AustroHungarians Place Units - AustroHungarians 13 infantry placed in Vienna Turn Complete - AustroHungarians AustroHungarians collect 37 PUs; end with 37 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
AustroHungarians regular : -3.00 British regular : 1.67 -
@SuperbattleshipYamato this is the only battle (the Austrians attacked on their turn and that turn is posted above)
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@SuperbattleshipYamato also, before I forget, you made a small mistake on the French turn. This is a rule violation:
from page 15 of the rule book, "at the end of this phase [Movement phase] you must have at least one infantry unit in each territory in which you have land units and/or fighters.
So it should have been 125 attacking French infantry, not 126. One infantry would have had to babysit the fighter in Paris. Very small concern in this battle but it can be a big concern in some future game.
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