G1, attack Egypt or not?

[ninja_steffen]

Hey guys, I’m pretty new to axis and allies (I’ve been playing for about a year now), and I always struggle with Germany’s first move. I’ve read don’s essays concerning a&a, and there he says its a mistake to attack Egypt on the first turn. There is one problem though, if you don’t attack Egypt, the English sub in the Suez canal can go trough to attack your transports in central med, which is a problem if you battleship is destroyed in the battle against the English battleship in Gibraltar… How do you guys solve this problem?

[Imperious Leader]

@ninja_steffen no never unless you transport tank and infantry, and use bomber that survives. the odds are not great. If you dont have that bomber you have no chance.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@ninja_steffen

As Germany, I often do, but do not consider me an expert in the slightest (I’ve only played a few games against myself with this version, never against someone else).

As Imperious Leader said, it only works if you transport the army in Italy and bring in the strategic bomber as well. If you can spare those resources for this attack, great. If not, don’t attack.

[Imperious Leader]

@SuperbattleshipYamato Everything plus Tank and Man, and bomber. that’s what you got then attack Egypt. no other attacks work on G1. I would do it everytime, no question

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@Imperious-Leader

Agreed.

[aardvarkpupper]

@ninja_steffen Don’s essays were for Classic or Revised, I forget. I consider the essays a must-read for introduction to thinking about the game, but the particulars e.g. hit Egypt or not change with editions.

So there I’d say the first question is, playing OOB (out of the box) setup? Or LHTR (Larry Harris Tournament Rules) setup? Because if it’s OOB I probably expect Axis to win regardless. Heh. And what’s this about an English battleship at Gibraltar? That’s very interesting. It implies there’s some background missing.

So this is one of these things where, if you want a really good contextual answer, need to provide more contextual details.

For example, suppose I said it doesn’t make sense to send tank and infantry and bomber to Egypt, because under LHTR the German bomber is in Ukraine and is expected to be destroyed? Or suppose I said on USSR first turn, a fighter was flown to Egypt? (And that’s not really great for USSR either; there’s a reason that’s not “standard”, but it DOES happen.). Or suppose I just did a breakdown on the numbers and followups of Russia/Germany/UK, and said here’s what you risk, here’s what you gain? Hm?

Anyways this thread is a few months old, so if any replies, we’ll see. But also, where is an English battleship at Gibraltar coming from? Because Germany can blow up the UK starting battleship, in different setups I think there’s a destroyer or a cruiser off Gibraltar for England respectively, so is UK buying a battleship?

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@aardvarkpupper

I’m replying. Anyways, I checked the map again, and it’s odd there would be a battleship at Gibraltar.

Especially odd is that it’s about a G1 attack on Egypt, and Germany goes before the UK, meaning the battleship won’t enter the Mediterranean until the UK’s first turn, and Germany will be able to do something about it (of course, projecting further specifically at this stage is impossible).

While I didn’t ask the original question, I am curious about a “breakdown on the numbers and followups of Russia/Germany/UK, and said here’s what you risk, here’s what you gain”.

It would be nice if you wrote that.

[aardvarkpupper]

@SuperbattleshipYamato
Re: breakdown

Oh, that was a “make better more detailed questions or aardvarkpepper will start typing text walls that reference appendices A-H, and you won’t be able to make sense of any of it unless you actually read the whole thing” thing.

If someone makes a topic “Let’s run the numbers!” or something, maybe I take another look.

But for this thread, I’m sorta like - there’s an English battleship at Gibraltar in Revised. But there’s no English sub at Suez, and even for a bid in Revised, I would think bid typically goes to Axis (not Allies). So it’s probably Classic, don’t you think? Sub off Suez, battleship at Gibraltar, right?

Which actually makes it correct where OP says they were reading Don’s essays. But if they’ve only been playing about a year, it’s 2023 so where did they get a copy of Classic from?

Mysteries within mysteries. And if the OP is actually worried about losing vs English battleship at Gibraltar, well, air has reach right? So it still comes down to, there’s some pretty important details missing. What is the OP doing exactly? Need those details if want to provide any good contextual advice, hm?

So I’d favor making a new thread like “The numbers on G1 Egypt?” because I see this thread as a misdirected Classic post.

But even making a new thread to really hit those numbers in detail - I don’t know that readers would really be interested in in-depth. Like, you can’t really discuss the Atlantic transport game unless you know the Atlantic escort game, the Axis counter-escort, the Axis timings, and knowing those in turn mean understanding the context Africa and Pacific play, etc. It’s a lot. And in the end, it’s rarely “right” or “wrong” so much as “there’s tradeoffs”, and even for lines that are statistically worse against prepared opponents, there’s the possibility opponents won’t be prepared because they haven’t seen it before, which is another discussion.

But if you want to dig in deep - why do YOU favor G1 Egypt? Maybe make a new thread, throw in a load of details, numbers, if it’s something to be dug deep on.

[Imperious Leader]

Don Rey has no relevance to anything in 1942.2 or anything past Revised. The new units and map configuration allow for greater force projection. the new rules about sub stall and blocking with transports hold no water. Forget Don Ray. and nobody plays anything but LHTR, so if you dont kill the bomber in UKR, its possible to kill Egypt but its something like 58% if you bring a tank and infantry with everything. Its a decent move to kill that fighter, because now UK can hit the BB with nothing but 1 fighter, and 1 bomber. If you know any better you will lose the Bomber sooner than latter in the UKR battle of 9/12. Ardvarkpupper plays all sorts of fringe ideas in 42, which is why they are mostly lost games ( like attacking Baltic german fleet, Belo, Baltic, et al… i know i beat him twice.

[aardvarkpupper]

@Imperious-Leader

A well written study using scientific methods remains relevant and interesting regardless of edition.

It’s probably a bit embarrassing to some that I caught the OP’s likely using a different edition where that had gone unremarked before, but that’s as it goes.

(I wrote the post I’m referencing re: different edition a few hours ago; I expect it hasn’t cleared yet so perhaps we’ll see it tomorrow.)

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@aardvarkpupper

Agreed.