Let Italy Take Africa

[plumsmugler]

I’ve noticed that a lot of players in the '41 scenario knock out Egypt on G1 and then roll all over it with their tanks after that, snatching up all of the African IPCs.  They argue that Germany needs those IPCs because they’re fighting all three Allies at once.

I think this is a mistake.  Granted, Germany has a lot on its plate throughout the game, but if played properly, they’ll be making 45-50 IPCs after G2 and can keep that up pretty effectively.  At the same time, unless they start building more ICs or get increased factory production, they can only build 10 units a turn anyway.

Italy on the other hand seems to have been created as a point of opportunity for the allies.  If they can knock out the Italian navy 2nd or 3rd turn then Italy doesn’t really have the income to defend itself and the attention Germany has to pay to it to keep it alive distracts it.  An Italy with a higher income means it can defend itself, afford to repair damage to it’s IC, retake France or reinforce it when necessary, and put added pressure on Russia.  Plus if Italy has the income to produce a full six units a turn that means the Axis in Europe have a production capacity of 16 units in Europe a turn instead of Germany’s sole ten.  Hell, I’ve played games where once Italy’s income gets into the 30s it can start putting some serious pressure on both America and the UK.

A healthy Italy means a much stronger Axis presence in Europe and a much more pleasant experience for the Italian player, if you’re in a six player game.  Although, a stronger Italy is just more fun the the Axis player in a two player game too.  To led Italy atrophy due to Germany taking all of the African IPCs will just make is so much easier for the Allies to capture and thus leading to an Axis loss.  In my opinion a lost capitol which cannot be immediately retaken ends the game for either side.

[Zhukov44]

I have yet to see Italy exceed 25 ipcs.  But then, I typically play with a bid to Egypt–I suppose the scenario for a monster Italy is a no-bid game where USA goes for the Pacific and UK is focused on Europe or India.  I read about a game where Italy captured India and made inroads into China…that would be neat to see.

[Bardoly]

@Zhukov44:

I have yet to see Italy exceed 25 ipcs.   But then, I typically play with a bid to Egypt–I suppose the scenario for a monster Italy is a no-bid game where USA goes for the Pacific and UK is focused on Europe or India.  I read about a game where Italy captured India and made inroads into China…that would be neat to see.

I see Italy collecting 25+ IPCs for multiple rounds in pretty much most of my games, and it does make it funner for the Axis to actually have THREE powers which can do something rather than this little 3 infantry units-per-turn sidekick.

[a44bigdog]

I think this is the game you were referring to Zhukov44

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=13247.0

This was an AA50-42T game between myself and Jenn. If I recall correctly I took India with Italy as it looked like a good move at the time and Japan was already in bad trouble. That game is definitely one of the strangest games I have ever played. Japan was reduced to irrelevance almost at the start. England fell in round 8 and Russia ultimately won the game. Not taking Africa with the Germans so that Italy could take it probably cost me that game, but this was a latter occurrence than what is in discussion in this thread.

As far as the thread discussion, I will take Africa with Germany if they are in position to do so. I have found that it is generally not in the Axis’s best interest to delay in this so that Italy can gain the income. As far as Italy’s income is concerned I have found securing their National Objectives to be the most important thing as opposed to the difference of a few IPCs for Africa between them and Germany. Also by blitzing Africa with German Armor immediately as opposed to waiting for Italy to do so reduces England’s income faster. Keep in mind to that even if Italy is reduced to 9 IPCs a turn they do not have to buy 3 Infantry per turn. That may not even be in their best interest. Italy can save money and buy a bomber or two or even with 9 IPCs an Artillery and an Armor. It really depends more on what Italy needs to do as what they need to buy. Also consider investing in tech with Italy. Even reduced to 9 IPCs with Rockets they can buy AA guns and attack Russia and England.

[MadMc]

One of the games I was playing Italy and I was able to take Brazil and the West Indies and begin SBR of E US. a strong Italy is a very good thing for the Axis, especially if it is underestimated in the begining

[gamerman01]

I had long-range paratroopers for Italy by round 5 and was threatening an empty EUS from Libya (Japs to take Alaska to make it legal).  I had 4 bombers and infantry together at various places, believe it or not.  Heck ya, buy tech with Italy (like bigdog said).
Probably wasn’t too wise of the opponent to leave Egypt empty round 1 after I didn’t even attack Egypt G1 (will not mention names).
Thanks for the stimulating topic, plum.  AAbigdog does raise very good points in response (NO’s are more important, e.g.) but if you can take Africa with Italy, yeah that’s icing on the cake.

[gamerman01]

Here it is.  Opponent forfeited at this point.

Gamerman v Anonymous 41 5eI.AAM

[souL]

As long as Italy is hitting their two bonuses you should be more than happy.  Doing that doubles their income, who cares how it happens.  The money will be spent in the Atlantic theater regardless.

My thing is:  don’t romp through Africa at the cost of the Med or N. Africa.  I like to take trj and sud, and keep Egy choked off.  If I’m secure enough I’ll drop a factory in Egy with whoever is there and linchpin the Axis connection through the globe.

[a44bigdog]

very good point on the Egyptian IC SouL. While it is not often doable it can be the difference between taking and holding African or merely making some quick money. Look for situations where Italy or Germany can build the IC and then the Japanese reinforce, especially if they can set up a 2 transport shuck from the East Indies.

[plumsmugler]

Haha wow Gamerman, that is an insane game you had going on there.  All that technology floating around, a huge British presence in Africa, Italy owning Karelia and Madagascar, Russia owning Scandinavia, a British fleet off of the lower coast of Brazil. That’s pretty nuts.

I also like how you changed the name of your opponent in the save file to “anonymous.”  + 1 for respecting anonymity.

[Twigley]

I totally agree that the Axis need to nurture Italy early. I think the way to a solid win for the allies is to knock out Italy in Rnd 2. If the Germans can secure the Italian NO’s that’s a start.

And if the Suez is Axis, and India is carelessly open then yes. Definitely give it to Italy. Then it’s 3 IPCs for Italy - and 5 for Japan. A good split of booty.