6171d88a-deb0-4aed-814b-5efc34cc7925-triplea_41868_1Dut.tsvg
[Game 5] TGC (Entente) v DoManMacgee (CP) -oob, no bid, RR
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@domanmacgee check me on this but I believe that since Ukraine was a contested territory and since the ottomans gained control on their turn, is it not now an Ottoman territory?
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@the_good_captain said in [Game 5] TGC (Entente) v DoManMacgee (CP) -oob, no bid, RR:
from the FAQ:
Q. Can a fighter fly over a neutral territory on its way to another territory?
A. No.I’m kinda surprise your intuition was “yes”. I don’t know any version of AnA where that is true. Is there a version where you can do that?
No, but the rule on FTR movement says:
“Fighters can move up to two spaces. When moving two spaces, it doesn’t matter what the status of the first space is. It can
be a sea zone, a friendly or contested territory, or even a
hostile territory. However, a fighter must end its move in a
territory containing land units belonging to your power”I found it odd for the rulebook to say “it doesn’t matter” but then not actually list neutral territories on the list of allowed “first territories”, hence my confusion. The FAQ is clear-cut on the issue, though. Thanks.
@the_good_captain said in [Game 5] TGC (Entente) v DoManMacgee (CP) -oob, no bid, RR:
@domanmacgee check me on this but I believe that since Ukraine was a contested territory and since the ottomans gained control on their turn, is it not now an Ottoman territory?
Technically it’s a “Russian” territory while contested, but Russia is out of the game so:
-UK takes it = UK owns it (same precedent as occupying an allied country’s territory while said ally’s capital is in enemy-hands).-Ottoman takes it = Ottomans own it for obvious reasons.
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@domanmacgee okay, I’m going to flip the Ukraine to Ottoman and add 3 IPC to them.
And ya I see the confusion, that rulebook is really disappointing. You NEED the FAQ to have a chance of making sense of so many issues. And even then, Krieg had to write a twelve page clarification or whatever.
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@the_good_captain Works for me. I’ve been playing this entire time under the impression that you don’t collect income for contested territories while they’re contested, but I think that’s a War Room thing. I haven’t been playing with the IPC Values though so if TripleA’s been doing it right then we’re probably fine.
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@domanmacgee the Ukraine is not contested. It was captured by the Ottomans. It was previously German controlled.
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@the_good_captain Oh whoops. I thought you were talking about Sevastopol this entire time, not Ukraine. My bad. I’m still fine with Ottomans owing Ukraine. Roll on to I6/USA6 whenever you’re ready.
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Game History
Round: 6 Puchase Units - Italians Italians buy 7 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; Combat Move - Italians 6 artilleries, 4 fighters and 14 infantry moved from Piedmont to Tuscany 10 infantry moved from Rome to Tuscany Combat Move - Italians Place Units - Italians 7 infantry placed in Rome Turn Complete - Italians Italians collect 14 PUs; end with 15 PUs -
Game History
Round: 6 Puchase Units - Americans Americans buy 8 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Americans 6 infantry moved from Marseilles to Piedmont 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 3 infantry moved from Spain to Marseilles 8 infantry moved from United States of America to SZ 1 8 infantry and 4 transports moved from SZ 1 to SZ 14 8 infantry moved from SZ 14 to Spain 4 transports moved from SZ 14 to SZ 1 1 battleship and 1 cruiser moved from SZ 8 to SZ 9 Combat Move - Americans Place Units - Americans 8 infantry placed in United States of America Turn Complete - Americans Americans collect 24 PUs; end with 24 PUs -
@domanmacgee the rules question wasn’t holding up my turn, I was more or less asking if you knew the correct answer - you are the most rules savvy opponent I’m currently playing.
I believe I found it from page 15,
“If you move units into a hostile territory that contains enemy units, that territory becomes contested. When a territory is contested, it generates no IPC income. The controlling player immediately removes their control marker from the territory…”
So since the German control marker would be removed as soon as it became contested, and since the Ottoman’s captured the contested territory, and since the original owner is a (former) Entente power, it goes to the Ottomans.
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@domanmacgee forgot to flip it to the Ottomans, use this file: USA6.tsvg
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@the_good_captain said in [Game 5] TGC (Entente) v DoManMacgee (CP) -oob, no bid, RR:
So since the German control marker would be removed as soon as it became contested, and since the Ottoman’s captured the contested territory, and since the original owner is a (former) Entente power, it goes to the Ottomans.
Oh I get where your confusion came from now. We’re on the same page though 100%. Will post AH7 later.
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Game History
Round: 7 Puchase Units - AustroHungarians AustroHungarians buy 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 1 tank; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - AustroHungarians 2 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from Tyrolia to Venice 2 fighters moved from Venice to Trieste 1 infantry moved from Trieste to Albania AustroHungarians take Albania from Italians 4 artilleries and 2 tanks moved from Trieste to Venice 4 artilleries, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tank moved from Vienna to Trieste Combat - AustroHungarians Combat Move - AustroHungarians Place Units - AustroHungarians 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 1 tank placed in Vienna Turn Complete - AustroHungarians AustroHungarians collect 33 PUs; end with 33 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
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@the_good_captain Game History
Round: 7 Puchase Units - Germans Germans buy 6 artilleries, 1 infantry and 2 tanks; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Germans 3 artilleries, 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 1 tank moved from Berlin to Hanover 3 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Munich to Alsace 18 artilleries, 8 fighters and 17 infantry moved from Alsace to Lorraine 2 fighters moved from Ruhr to Lorraine 8 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from Ruhr to Belgium 4 artilleries, 2 fighters and 4 infantry moved from Hanover to Ruhr 4 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from Bohemia to Munich 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Romania to Sevastopol Combat - Germans Battle in Sevastopol Germans attack with 1 artillery and 1 infantry; Ottomans loiter and taunt British defend with 1 infantry and 1 port Germans roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Sevastopol, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits British roll dice for 1 infantry in Sevastopol, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits 1 artillery owned by the Germans and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Sevastopol Germans win, taking Sevastopol from British with 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -1 Casualties for Germans: 1 artillery Casualties for British: 1 infantry Battle in Belgium Germans attack with 8 artilleries and 3 infantry British defend with 1 infantry Germans roll dice for 8 artilleries and 3 infantry in Belgium, round 2 : 8/11 hits, 5.50 expected hits French roll dice for 1 infantry in Belgium, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Germans and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Belgium Germans win, taking Belgium from French with 8 artilleries and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0 Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Casualties for British: 1 infantry Battle in Lorraine Germans attack with 18 artilleries, 10 fighters and 17 infantry British defend with 1 infantry; French defend with 9 artilleries and 39 infantry Germans roll dice for 18 artilleries, 10 fighters and 17 infantry in Lorraine, round 2 : 24/45 hits, 23.83 expected hits French roll dice for 9 artilleries and 40 infantry in Lorraine, round 2 : 30/49 hits, 24.50 expected hits 4 artilleries owned by the Germans, 16 infantry owned by the Germans, 10 fighters owned by the Germans, 23 infantry owned by the French and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Lorraine French and Germans reach a stalemate . Battle score for attacker is -52 Casualties for Germans: 4 artilleries, 10 fighters and 16 infantry Casualties for British: 1 infantry Casualties for French: 23 infantry Combat Move - Germans Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Lorraine: 1 artillery EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Lorraine: 1 fighter EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Place Units - Germans 6 artilleries, 1 infantry and 2 tanks placed in Berlin Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 41 PUs; end with 41 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
French regular : 6.00 Germans regular : 2.67 British regular : 0.50I am once again questioning the Americans in Piedmont, who moved out of Spain while it was still contested. How did you get those INF out of Spain while it was contested? You might have missed my ask from last round because I think I posted it on the AH turn and not the G turn.
This may not matter, though, given the dice in Marseilles. Time will tell, of course.
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Game History
Round: 7 Puchase Units - French French buy 9 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; Combat Move - French 3 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Picardy to Lorraine 10 infantry moved from Paris to Picardy Combat - French Battle in Lorraine French attack with 12 artilleries and 22 infantry Germans defend with 13 artilleries, 1 fighter and 1 infantry French roll dice for 12 artilleries and 22 infantry in Lorraine, round 2 : 14/34 hits, 15.33 expected hits Germans roll dice for 13 artilleries, 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Lorraine, round 2 : 10/15 hits, 9.50 expected hits 13 artilleries owned by the Germans, 1 fighter owned by the Germans and 10 infantry owned by the French lost in Lorraine Germans and French reach a stalemate . Battle score for attacker is 28 Casualties for French: 10 infantry Casualties for Germans: 13 artilleries and 1 fighter Combat Move - French Place Units - French 9 infantry placed in Paris Turn Complete - French French collect 25 PUs; end with 27 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
French regular : -1.33 Germans regular : 0.50 -
Game History
Round: 7 Puchase Units - British Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from Piedmont: 6 infantry EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to Marseilles: 6 infantry EDIT: Removing units owned by Italians from Tuscany: 1 infantry EDIT: Adding units owned by Italians to Piedmont: 1 infantry EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode British buy 4 artilleries, 1 fighter, 7 infantry and 1 tank; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - British 1 unit repaired. Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by British from Arabia: 2 fighters EDIT: Adding units owned by British to Egypt: 1 fighter EDIT: Adding units owned by British to Empire of Ethiopia: 1 fighter EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by British from Empire of Ethiopia: 1 fighter EDIT: Adding units owned by British to Arabia: 1 fighter EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by British from Egypt: 1 fighter EDIT: Adding units owned by British to Empire of Ethiopia: 1 fighter EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 1 infantry moved from British East Africa to Empire of Ethiopia 3 artilleries moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Empire of Ethiopia 2 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Empire of Ethiopia 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Egypt 1 infantry moved from Libya to SZ 17 1 infantry moved from SZ 17 to Egypt 1 infantry moved from Libya to Egypt 1 infantry moved from Arabia to Trans-Jordan British take Trans-Jordan from Ottomans 3 artilleries, 1 fighter and 4 infantry moved from Arabia to Syrian Desert 1 infantry moved from Mesopotamia to Ankara British take Ankara from Ottomans 5 artilleries, 1 fighter, 20 infantry and 3 tanks moved from Mesopotamia to Syrian Desert 2 transports moved from SZ 28 to SZ 29 3 infantry and 1 tank moved from India to SZ 29 3 infantry and 1 tank moved from SZ 29 to Mesopotamia 4 artilleries, 6 infantry and 2 tanks moved from Persia to Mesopotamia 10 infantry moved from India to Persia 1 fighter moved from India to Mesopotamia 1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from SZ 8 to Picardy 1 infantry moved from SZ 9 to Picardy Combat - British Battle in Egypt British attack with 1 artillery and 4 infantry Ottomans defend with 1 infantry British roll dice for 1 battleship in Egypt, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits Ottomans roll dice for 1 infantry in Egypt, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Ottomans and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Egypt British win, taking Egypt from Ottomans with 1 artillery and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0 Casualties for British: 1 infantry Casualties for Ottomans: 1 infantry Battle in Syrian Desert British attack with 8 artilleries, 2 fighters, 24 infantry and 3 tanks Ottomans defend with 1 infantry British roll dice for 8 artilleries, 2 fighters, 24 infantry and 3 tanks in Syrian Desert, round 2 : 17/37 hits, 16.33 expected hits Ottomans roll dice for 1 infantry in Syrian Desert, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Ottomans lost in Syrian Desert British win, taking Syrian Desert from Ottomans with 8 artilleries, 2 fighters, 24 infantry and 3 tanks remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Ottomans: 1 infantry Battle in Empire of Ethiopia British attack with 3 artilleries, 1 fighter and 3 infantry Neutral_True defend with 1 artillery and 1 infantry British roll dice for 3 artilleries, 1 fighter and 3 infantry in Empire of Ethiopia, round 2 : 4/7 hits, 3.83 expected hits Neutral_True roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Empire of Ethiopia, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Neutral_True, 1 infantry owned by the British and 1 artillery owned by the Neutral_True lost in Empire of Ethiopia British win, taking Empire of Ethiopia from Neutral_True with 3 artilleries, 1 fighter and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4 Casualties for British: 1 infantry Casualties for Neutral_True: 1 artillery and 1 infantry Combat Move - British Place Units - British 4 artilleries, 1 fighter, 7 infantry and 1 tank placed in India Turn Complete - British British collect 51 PUs; end with 51 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Ottomans regular : 0.00 Neutral_True regular : 0.00 British regular : 1.17UK7.tsvg well, I guess now I have screwed that rule up every way you can. I read that and thought I saw “side” instead of “power”. smh. I would say that screwed me up from the jump bc I had that planned from AH1 but…the French rolling +6 is a potential breaker…
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Game History
Round: 7 Puchase Units - Ottomans Ottomans buy 2 artilleries and 5 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Ottomans 1 fighter moved from Constantinople to Greece 2 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from Serbia to Greece 1 artillery moved from Constantinople to Greece 3 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Ukraine to Tatarstan 4 infantry moved from Sevastopol to Tatarstan 1 artillery and 11 infantry moved from Romania to Bulgaria 13 artilleries and 10 infantry moved from Smyrna to Constantinople Combat - Ottomans Battle in Greece Ottomans attack with 3 artilleries, 1 fighter and 3 infantry Neutral_True defend with 1 artillery and 3 infantry Ottomans roll dice for 3 artilleries, 1 fighter and 3 infantry in Greece, round 2 : 2/7 hits, 3.83 expected hits Neutral_True roll dice for 1 artillery and 3 infantry in Greece, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 2.00 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Ottomans and 2 infantry owned by the Neutral_True lost in Greece Neutral_True and Ottomans reach a stalemate . Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Ottomans: 1 infantry Casualties for Neutral_True: 2 infantry Battle in Tatarstan Ottomans attack with 3 artilleries and 6 infantry British defend with 1 infantry Ottomans roll dice for 3 artilleries and 6 infantry in Tatarstan, round 2 : 4/9 hits, 4.00 expected hits British roll dice for 1 infantry in Tatarstan, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Tatarstan Ottomans win, taking Tatarstan from British with 3 artilleries and 6 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for British: 1 infantry Combat Move - Ottomans Place Units - Ottomans 2 artilleries and 5 infantry placed in Constantinople Turn Complete - Ottomans Ottomans collect 17 PUs; end with 17 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Ottomans regular : -1.83 Neutral_True regular : -1.00 British regular : -0.50Yeah losing the entire ART/FTR stacks is bad. I went into that expecting to trade unfavorably, but was hoping to get most of the French army too to simplify the game state. However, the fact that you’re stuck in Lorraine for another round is enough to allow me to want to continue for now.
As an aside, I probably should have sent more to Greece to guarantee the capture but whatever.
IMO the rules about moving out of contested territories are stupid and lead to gamey situations like this one and the one from an earlier game of ours (the one where the British and Ottomans in Sevastopol couldn’t go to the Ukraine fight because neither country had any troops there, despite the fact that we both only went to Sevastopol with the intent of ultimately going to Ukraine).
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@domanmacgee so I actually looked into this and check this out from the official Q and A:
Q.
Not sure if you are in a position to answer this one, but what was the rationale behind not allowing Germany to move from a contested territory to an Austrian-controlled territory but allowing them to move from a contested territory to another contested territory that happens to have 1 (or more) German(s) there?A.
The reason for this rule is unfortunately very fiddly. It’s there to prevent can openers, which were way too effective against Russia in playtesting -
Game History
Round: 7 Puchase Units - Italians Italians buy 5 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Italians Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Neutral_True from Greece: 1 artillery and 1 infantry EDIT: Adding units owned by Italians to SZ 17: 1 artillery and 1 infantry EDIT: Changing ownership of Greece from Neutral_True to Ottomans EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by British from SZ 17: 1 transport EDIT: Removing units owned by Italians from SZ 17: 2 artilleries, 1 battleship, 2 infantry and 1 transport EDIT: Adding units owned by British to SZ 17: 1 transport EDIT: Adding units owned by Italians to SZ 17: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 transport EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 6 artilleries, 4 fighters and 30 infantry moved from Tuscany to Piedmont 1 infantry moved from Rome to Tuscany Combat Move - Italians Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Adding units owned by Italians to Rome: 1 artillery and 1 infantry EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Place Units - Italians 5 infantry placed in Rome Turn Complete - Italians Italians collect 12 PUs; end with 12 PUs -
Game History
Round: 7 Puchase Units - Americans Americans buy 8 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Americans 3 artilleries, 1 fighter and 9 infantry moved from Marseilles to Piedmont 8 infantry moved from Spain to Marseilles 8 infantry moved from United States of America to SZ 1 8 infantry and 4 transports moved from SZ 1 to SZ 14 4 transports moved from SZ 14 to SZ 1 8 infantry moved from SZ 14 to Spain Combat Move - Americans Place Units - Americans 8 infantry placed in United States of America Turn Complete - Americans Americans collect 24 PUs; end with 24 PUsUSA7.tsvg left a comment about the contested territories rule above my posts
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Game History
Round: 8 Puchase Units - AustroHungarians AustroHungarians buy 3 artilleries, 5 infantry and 1 tank; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - AustroHungarians 3 fighters moved from Trieste to Switzerland 20 artilleries, 15 infantry and 2 tanks moved from Venice to Switzerland 2 fighters moved from Vienna to Switzerland 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 tank moved from Vienna to Trieste 1 infantry moved from Trieste to Albania Combat - AustroHungarians Battle in Switzerland AustroHungarians attack with 20 artilleries, 5 fighters, 15 infantry and 2 tanks Neutral_True defend with 1 artillery and 1 infantry AustroHungarians roll dice for 20 artilleries, 5 fighters, 15 infantry and 2 tanks in Switzerland, round 2 : 20/42 hits, 23.50 expected hits Neutral_True roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Switzerland, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits Units damaged: 1 tank owned by the AustroHungarians 1 infantry owned by the Neutral_True and 1 artillery owned by the Neutral_True lost in Switzerland AustroHungarians win, taking Switzerland from Neutral_True with 20 artilleries, 5 fighters, 15 infantry and 2 tanks remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for Neutral_True: 1 artillery and 1 infantry Combat Move - AustroHungarians Place Units - AustroHungarians 3 artilleries, 5 infantry and 1 tank placed in Vienna Turn Complete - AustroHungarians AustroHungarians collect 34 PUs; end with 34 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
AustroHungarians regular : -3.50 Neutral_True regular : 0.00Game History
Round: 8 Puchase Units - Germans Germans buy 5 artilleries, 5 infantry and 1 tank; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Germans Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Adding units owned by Neutral_Central to Lorraine: 1 infantry EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Lorraine: 1 infantry EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 3 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Alsace to Switzerland 4 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from Ruhr to Belgium 1 fighter moved from Ruhr to Switzerland 1 fighter moved from Ruhr to Belgium 4 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from Munich to Alsace 3 artilleries, 3 infantry and 1 tank moved from Hanover to Munich 6 artilleries, 1 infantry and 2 tanks moved from Berlin to Hanover Combat Move - Germans Place Units - Germans 5 artilleries, 5 infantry and 1 tank placed in Berlin Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 41 PUs; end with 41 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
I edited a German INF out of Sevastopol/into Romania after the turn was over. It’s in the save but not in the turn readout.
@the_good_captain said in [Game 5] TGC (Entente) v DoManMacgee (CP) -oob, no bid, RR:
@domanmacgee so I actually looked into this and check this out from the official Q and A:
Q.
Not sure if you are in a position to answer this one, but what was the rationale behind not allowing Germany to move from a contested territory to an Austrian-controlled territory but allowing them to move from a contested territory to another contested territory that happens to have 1 (or more) German(s) there?A.
The reason for this rule is unfortunately very fiddly. It’s there to prevent can openers, which were way too effective against Russia in playtestingThat actually makes quite a good amount of sense. Russia already has a pretty rough go of things the way it is.
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