Don't get how Germany can handle UK and Russia with the bombing…

[gamerman01]

@Bel:

-doing 12 IPC takes on average 3.4 bombers.

Look mate I’m not sure why your so worked up but your plainly putting little thought into your replies. If Italy waits to turn 2 after the SBR to bomb again they have 18IPC - 12IPC to fix allowing them to build 2 infantry. Allies come in the next turn and it begins all over again.

The maths don’t support your logic.

If Italy has 18 IPC’s with max 12 damage, they’re not going to fix 12 damage and build 2 infantry.  Italy only needs to fix 7 to build something.  So they could build a fighter and have 1 left over.  Man, who have you been playing, anyway?

[cts17]

Ummm… if Italy has been bombed, they can’t build ANYTHING, at all, during that turn, no matter what they build. Just thought I’d point that out.

[axis_roll]

@cts17:

Ummm… if Italy has been bombed, they can’t build ANYTHING, at all, during that turn, no matter what they build. Just thought I’d point that out.

Not sure what you are referring too.  If Italy had $10 or more dollars, they would be able to build 1 or more units.  The repair costs need to get to 5 damage (7 repairs) + 1 inf ($3) = 10 IPCs

[Col.Stauffenberg]

I agree with the OP. SBR with the new rules and GER having only one factory kills this game. Played it a handful of times before me and my friends gave it up in favor of 42.

[gamerman01]

@Col.Stauffenberg:

I agree with the OP. SBR with the new rules and GER having only one factory kills this game. Played it a handful of times before me and my friends gave it up in favor of 42.

Handful of times is not enough.  Ever tried building an IC in France?  Ever rolled for tech?  Ever played with escorts/interceptors?
If you think SBR is too devastating, just play with escorts/interceptors.  You won’t see much SBR after that unless you lose all of your fighters.

[gamerman01]

Do any of you guys who think SBR is over-powered play by forum?
I would love to play one of you.  I have never ever had a problem with SBR against me as the Axis.  I would really have fun trying to counter/survive a lot of SBR.  I’m even willing to play without the interceptor optional rule.  PM me, post here, anything.  I have thrown down the gauntlet.
I’m guessing that with only 5 posts, Deathtwinkie isn’t even around.  That leaves you, colonel :D  Oh wait, you only have 17 posts.
My guess is there isn’t anyone who plays AA50 much who SBR’s like crazy because I’ve never seen it.
The max damage per territory really holds it back.  If you send in 4 conventional bombers to SBR Germany and they all get missed by AA, the could do from 4-24 damage, except the damage is capped at 20.  So if you send in 4 (or any more than that) your average damage per bomber is already less than 3.5.  Anyway, I think I listed all the considerations that are not being considered, earlier on this thread.
I wanna play against an SBR campaaaiiign!!!

[Col.Stauffenberg]

I have more than one post.  :? Anyway it’s not so much the SBR but the fact Germany has only one factory and Italy is so weak. One of my friends did the France factory and it was an utter disaster. Can GER really afford 15 IPCs on a territory so far away from their main objective? Especially if you buy an AC, which seems to be even more essential in this version? That’s almost all of their starting income right there. Especially if you roll for tech which is a standard first round move for Germany. Meanwhile what does Russia build? Land stuff that goes all out for Germany since it’s a loooong time before they have to worry about Japan.

Can’t remember if we played with the fighter intercept rule because we haven’t played since the summer but we use it with 42 so it would probably help a little but the addition of Italy is too much dead weight for GER. A country that can only build 6 things, has to press Russia, defend France, hold the MED and seperates GER from Africa income makes the game too unbalanced.

[gamerman01]

Col, it doesn’t sound like you’ve played AA50 much, except some with your buddies.
That’s fine, it’s just that I think you may be posting out of ignorance.
Probably between 60-90% of regular AA50 players would tell you that if anything, the game favors the Axis.  Many others would say that it is balanced.  Many call for extra Allied infantry in Yunnan, or Egypt, for example.

Germany starts with a 10 factory, but normally picks up and holds Karelia, which is another 2.  France is farther from Russia, yes, which you call the “main objective”.  I would submit to you that Germany does not need to take over Russia to win this game.  This is a different game than previous versions.  Especially if you are talking the 1941 scenario, Germany can just manage Russia and wait for the cavalry (Japan).
In the '41 scenario, I have lost Germany and Italy and still won with Japan vs. the world, and it wasn’t even close.
Italy is not the “weak sister” that you think.  I normally haul in 20-25 IPC’s as Italy at the end of the first round, and many times after a few rounds she is out-earning the UK.  You point out that Italy takes away IPC’s in Africa from Germany.  But there are positives to the new power as well.  She can create powerful opportunities in the Eastern Front that were not possible before - “can-openers” if you will.
It’s a pity you won’t play me by forum.  I could “take you to school”  8-)  :wink:

[gamerman01]

@Col.Stauffenberg:

Meanwhile what does Russia build? Land stuff that goes all out for Germany since it’s a loooong time before they have to worry about Japan.

A country that can only build 6 things, has to press Russia, defend France, hold the MED and seperates GER from Africa income makes the game too unbalanced.

Agree with you that Russia builds land stuff and goes all out for Germany for a few rounds.  Japan gets to Russia on average by round 4, or so, which may be quicker than you think.
Italy often times can’t even max capacity (6) so that’s not the major limiting factor.  Italy can’t press Russia, defend France, and hold the Med (and take over Africa).  Usually you have to prioritize - you can’t do it all.  Just like the UK cannot put maximum pressure on Germany, take back Africa, build an IC in India, and pressure Japan.  You have to take your picks.  Italy is no different than anyone else that way.

[Col.Stauffenberg]

How does playing by forum work? I don’t like the sound of it. I need a board and dice. I would like to play you, because you’re boastful and I doubt you’re as good as you claim, because I read one of you posts where you said you like playing countries where you don’t have to think too much, like China.

AA50 strikes me as a game where you don’t have to think to much, because every countries objectives are spelled out for you. I think people are in denial because of the money they blew on this attractive albiet broken game.

[katfishkris]

pbf is pretty easy.  i was skeptical at first too, give me the board and dice.  then i played a pbf, (my face to face partner was away for two weeks, needed a fix), it was fun.  if you download abattlemap, its like having a board.  the one thing i dont like is not having the dice in my hand, mojo you know.  i suggest you try it.  well worth the time, and i have learned a lot by playing various other players.  easy to get going, although abattlemap is a little tricky to get the hang of.  just download it and mess around with moving pieces, flagging countries and NOs, deleting pieces, etc.  the map keeps track of ipc, tech, turns, all of it.  and if there is ever a discrepency, you can go back to previous posts to chack on things.  if you would like, we can start a game and just go through a round or two just to get the hang of it.  i can help walk you through the map stuff.  map is the most important item in pbf.

[Funcioneta]

Italy is a real pain in 1941 scenario making can openers for Germany. Also, it’s annoying when they start collecting about the same as UK, at least in 1942 scenario  :-P

[Col.Stauffenberg]

@katfishkris:

pbf is pretty easy.  i was skeptical at first too, give me the board and dice.  then i played a pbf, (my face to face partner was away for two weeks, needed a fix), it was fun.  if you download abattlemap, its like having a board.  the one thing i dont like is not having the dice in my hand, mojo you know.  i suggest you try it.  well worth the time, and i have learned a lot by playing various other players.  easy to get going, although abattlemap is a little tricky to get the hang of.  just download it and mess around with moving pieces, flagging countries and NOs, deleting pieces, etc.  the map keeps track of ipc, tech, turns, all of it.  and if there is ever a discrepency, you can go back to previous posts to chack on things.  if you would like, we can start a game and just go through a round or two just to get the hang of it.  i can help walk you through the map stuff.  map is the most important item in pbf.

Thanks for the offer. Sure, I’d give it a whirl, once I find the time.

[gamerman01]

@Col.Stauffenberg:

How does playing by forum work? I don’t like the sound of it. I need a board and dice. I would like to play you, because you’re boastful and I doubt you’re as good as you claim, because I read one of you posts where you said you like playing countries where you don’t have to think too much, like China.

At least I can back up the boasting.  Just ask katfish and Funcioneta, who just posted here.  We have a good time playing, but they haven’t beaten me yet.

Take up katfish on the offer.  PBF is really fun - you’ll probably like it.  Many people think it would be horrible, but they’ve never tried it.  I was the same way.

You totally misinterpreted me on the reason I like playing China.  Yeah, I don’t like to think too much, because I’ve been thinking so much on all the other powers.  You don’t think you have to think to play AA50?  Another sign you haven’t played it much, or haven’t played good competition.  If you don’t think too much, you will lose.

Since I annoy you, we would probably have a lot of fun playing.  Sometimes it’s fun to have an “enemy” you don’t like!!  :lol:

[gamerman01]

Col, I win about 3X as many as I lose.  You let me know when you have PBF figured out, and then you take me on.  I’ll be waiting.  8-)
It’s one thing to boast when you can’t back it up.
Quite another, if you can.

[Col.Stauffenberg]

No offense Gamerman but I doubt I’d ever play you. I don’t like to play people who boast wether they can back it up or not. It’s poor sportsmanship/bad ettitquette.

[gamerman01]

You’re the only person who’s called me a boaster, FYI.
Ask people I’ve played with whether I boast.  Ask Katfish and Functioneta how much I boast.  Ask Anchovy, Plumsmugler, the list goes on.  I have beaten all of these fine players, and have at least as many wins as losses with every one, and never once boasted or rubbed anything in their face.  Most of my opponents play me again and again and enjoy the games.  Apparently you just rub me the wrong way, so I did get a bit obnoxious.
Thanks for your somewhat polite response, though.
I wish you wouldn’t label and shelve me based on a comment or two.  Don’t be so quick to judge.

[gamerman01]

@Col.Stauffenberg:

I agree with the OP. SBR with the new rules and GER having only one factory kills this game. Played it a handful of times before me and my friends gave it up in favor of 42.

This is how you got me started.
SBR and Ger having only one factory does not kill this game by any stretch of the imagination.
It just irks me when people start posting stuff about a game they’ve hardly played, acting like they know it all. 
You said these things “kill this game” like it’s a fact, when it is just your opinion, which is based on a couple games with your friends.  Go play 1942 then, and stop posting on the AA50 thread, since it’s a “killed” game and you don’t like it anyway.

[gamerman01]

@katfishkris:

my suggestion to you is to either play a pbf game, or check some of them out.  this will give you ideas,  what to do if allies are SBRing you to pieces, and what to do offensively & defensively.  i have played as the allies, bombing the crap out of germany, and still lost.  i have played as the axis, being on the recieving end of the bombings, and still won.  check out the other games bud, it will help.  if you like, we can start a game just to have a little walk through.  imo, japan is the key to an axis victory,  germany and italy just help out, sometimes alot.  good luck.  and go for radar or improved factories.  SBRs wont bother you any more if you can get both of those.  just $5 each turn till you hit something.

This dude knows what he’s talking about.

[axis_roll]

@Col.Stauffenberg:

AA50 strikes me as a game where you don’t have to think to much, because every countries objectives are spelled out for you. I think people are in denial because of the money they blew on this attractive albiet broken game.

Interesting statement, and one I hope I will not take out of context by quoting you here.

Axis & Allies is a strategic game that uses dice to determine battle outcomes.  Therefor, there is an element of randomness to the game.  That may drive you crazy, or it may give you hope to play on:
Craziness:  You take 6 tanks on 3 inf and lose the battle  :-o
Hope:  You’re on the receiving end of the battle  :-)

I think A&A has chess like aspects where you need to plan your moves over a few rounds and react to your opponents moves appropriately.  However, the dice can negate the definitive outcomes in chess:  I know that my pawn will kill your pawn when it’s my turn to move… but my 3 tanks MAY not win against your 3 tanks.

I know that our playing group has always opted towards more strategic rules (house rules, newer versions, etc).  The original game (aka ‘Classic’) often turned into a Tech heavy race to roll “6”'s.  First to get HB’s with LR wins!  Revised diminished some of this (especially with the LHTR variant so widely adopted by the A&A community).  AA50 is even more strategic due to it’s many optional rules:  two scenarios, NO’s, Tech, Escorts, closing the Dardenelles.

What is my point in this reply?

I think your statement about the game being about not having to think much is off base.  This is one of the reasons I LOVE A&A so much:  Needing to think of new ways to defeat a strategy that has been employed successfully against me.  For the most part, there are counters to <most>strategies in AA50.  And the beauty of the optional rules I mentioned above, is that if your playing group gets into a rut where you determine that SBRs are the way to go for the allies and then the axis always reacts properly to offset this move… so the game becomes predictable, then incorporate some of the optional rules (or don’t use them if you had been).  Mix things up.  Think anew!

I have been playing this game since 1986, I’ve seen alot of claims about this game: broken due to unstoppable strategies, too dice heavy: Tech should never be used, use low luck, the list goes on…

But I have never seen anyone say the game in one “where you don’t have to think to much, because every countries objectives are spelled out for you”.

I would have to say that to overcome the ‘unbeatable strategy’ (Allied SBR’s as mentioned by the OP), you NEED to think out of the box to defeat these moves.  It can be done.  Just like in real life, every move has a trade off.  If you are doing one thing, you sacrifice doing another.  The axis need to find out what the allies are sacrificing when they conduct the SBR campaign and react accordingly.

Some posters here are telling you that these Axis reactions have been tried and are used in the PBF here.  If you have the time, at least peruse the PBF games and look for how these are countered.  Or better yet, join the group here and put your ‘unbeatable strategy’ to the test.

Good luck and good gaming!
axis_roll</most>