Sounds about right.
France
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France gonna be a full nation with all the units?
Per LH
France gets its national tokens it gets its colonies that are all over Africa in AAE and a couple of places in the AAP game (French Indo-China and New Hebrides) It has its own dedicated colored units. If captured by the initial German blitzkrieg its surviving units are controlled by one of the allied players probably the British player. If France is liberated it recovers its liberated factories and goes back to war against the axis as any major power would.Larry has to do something other than this.
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Corsica becomes Vichy controlled ( Italian after NOV 42)
French Morocco becomes Vichy controlled
Algeria becomes Vichy controlled
Tunisia becomes Vichy controlled
French West Africa becomes British controlled
French Central Africa becomes British controlled
Levant becomes Vichy controlled
Madagascar becomes Vichy controlled
French Somaliland becomes Vichy
French Indochina Becomes VichyVichy has a fixed number of military forces and is under German control ( pro axis)
A number of french forces are placed in England ( free french- pro allies)
The french get some naval units in port in West Africa ( to be determined)
No french deployment in Pacific.
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I’ve been meaning to check my history books versus the territories on the gameboard to see which ones should go Axis and which ones should go Alllied. Is that what you have just done for us IL
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I think we do a map where everything is accurate to 1940, then after that the normal rules of the game apply. Remember there were Axis diplomats to undermine these territories and bring them under the axis wing. Until Larry adds political subversion then I think we should play the game with the rules in place. Of course if Larry makes exceptions then what the heck, lets do it!
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I’m not sure it will be a huge blunder per-se, but it will be odd that Morocco did not just convert over to the Axis after the fall of France, but again I think that until we have some sort of a political part of the game where you might be able to influence weaker countries over to your side we really can’t just have it fall over, this is a case of gameplay vs. historical accuracy and I think gameplay goes the other way on this one unless there is some game mechanic to allow this to happen at any time. Remember we are trying to make the game less scripted and more dynamic, I think we would need a mechanic to allow this.
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Would be funny if there was a rule as follow :
When France is captured by an AXIS nation, France changes side to the Axis… So the guy playing Allies would become Axis over the course of the game :) That would be hilarious, and could be interesting for the gameplay (add another axis player = help Axis?) Of course, France would be limited to protecting Europe… So I guess its another stupid idea :( Nobody would want to play a stricly defensive game! Even Italy, in AA50, had a bigger role
Robert
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If Larry doesn’t take into consideration Vichy France, then that will be a big blunder.
Per LH
FYI - After wrestling with this Vichy siht, I decided to skip the whole thing. France will be considered an ally power and that’s it. The confusion generated by the Vichy loyalty thing is just not worth the extra game steps. Also… perhaps I did not mention this but if and when France is liberated it reappears as a self-standing power with its own economy. The rule may end up providing France with an automatic influx of new units appearing on the board. - I’m still toying with this idea. It’s got to be simple and instinctive. -
idk. I am sure he considered it. but the vichy thing would be rather complicated dont you think? I mean what happens when france is liberated? those blue units that were pro Germany suddenly arent anymore? nah I think it simplifies things
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Again I think that brings politics into the game if we allowed the Vichy thing, and since there is no politics mechanic then naturally that has to be omitted. Honestly if they were to do that then we would also have to include the French resistance, and that would be confusing as well.
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Most of the French territories became Vichy and not the other way around, so it makes more sense to just say if Paris falls, that all of France is now Axis.
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Ok, I think I have a solution. Remember that we are playing the game starting in 1940, so Larry is going to set the game up historically at that point, and from there out we play the game and whatever happens, well….happens. I think we let things be at 1940 and whatever happened afterward is all up to us, so unless the French player wants to defect over to the Axis, he stays in the game. I’m sure that can’t happen in the actual rules but we can always do house rules for this.
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Actually…If france goes vichy the game balance is even! it will be four axis and four allies. maybe the vichy thing isnt so bad if it improves game balance.
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I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) Vichy was neutral and didn’t declare war on the allies it just stopped fighting the axis. I know that Vichy forces were placed under German control and defended against allied invasions though, so its very murky. I know Larry is going to want the game to follow history so there could be something to insure Germany/Italy will indeed invade and conquer France. I wonder if there will be some kind of incentive/NO for the axis to take all of France in the 1st or 2nd round. Maybe something like certain Vichy French colonies become pro axis neutrals instead of Free French territories. This would be a way for Larry to deal with the whole Vichy/free French thing. Just a though it could be way off base.
Larry already said Iraq will be pro axis and Iran (Persia) will be pro allies he thinks.The Middle East will be carved up into many more tt so Syria could be there and it should be under Vichy French rule but more likely a pro axis neutral as Vichy won’t be represented in the game. I would also think other Vichy French colonies may be handled this way.
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I am mererly trying to emphasize that I think it is important. I threaten no one. When diplomacy fails it’s all out war with no warning or threat.
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Hard to make a first post, but I have an idea.
Consider that dividing France into many territories would mess up the scale, considering how Britain and the whole Eastern US are only one territory apiece. France could be done with 3 income territories - One in the south, one in the west, and one in the east(containing Paris). The Maginot line could be represented by a thin territory with no income Between Paris and Germany. The line would contain many units and effectively make it impossible for the Germans to seize Paris in one turn(because without the line it would border Germany). Although the line would be capturable, it would take a considerable amount of resources and would encourage players to instead strike through neutral Benelux in order to get close to Paris.
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Actually no, paris is NOT on the coast, britian IS divided up, and yes you CAN seize paris in one turn. dividing it up (remember the map is a lot bigger)
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Welcome Xzorn, as Swiss pointed out some of your post is already determined for AA40Europe.
I do think Larry put the Paris territory next to the German boarder so France would fall early. You wouldn’t want it to take 2-3 turns because then Paris wouldn’t fall til 1941 (6 month turns). You also wouldn’t want the allies to be able to liberate Paris easily either (on the coast) need to keep it land locked for game play.
I gave you +1 karma just for contributing, keep it up. -
That would simply be my idea if they were to introduce the line. In truth, it seems like they are doing it right if they want France to fall on time. In the real was it only lasted a few weeks, after all.
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xzorn,
I think Maginot Line is incorporated into the Paris territory. Larry did say that France would be well represented. Larry also said the Germans will have the tac bmr/tank attack pairing at set up that will simply over power the French (Maginot Line), as it did in WWII. The Germans will also be staged in the low countries just above France showing its ability to blitzkrieg rendering the Maginot Line as an out dated defense. I would have liked to see a buffer territory between Western Germany and Paris that would have represented the Maginot line. Many think this area should have included the all hailed blockhouse unit, but it wasn’t meant to be. I think Larry wanted Paris to fall fast as it did, with out the possibility of a major delay throwing off the timetable. The way I look at it is the Maginot Line was not going to stop the Germans as their new blitzkrieg technique proved by bypassing most of it.PS: I gave you a +1 karma for your second post, now you have twice as much good karma.
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Concerning Vichy.
France surrendered and made peace with Germany (sort of), so all French Colonies should be “Neutral” after the Germans conquer Paris+ the Coast (Dunkirk)
technically the Free French Forces weree NOT representing France as France had a working government (De Gaulle could be seen as a mercenary /rebel - he was only a patriot because the Allies won - history is written by the winner - but that does not belong here ;)).
most Vichy territories were soon attacked and most switched sides when attacked
Indochine fell to the japanese in 1940 (before the attack on PH), but the French even fought (and lost) a war against Siam in 1940…
Syria was attacked by the Brits - put up a little fight and surrendered/threw in their lot with the Allies, but before Germany flew some planes to Iraq )stopover in Syria) to support Iraq against the Brits…
The African Colonies soon joined the Free french Forces (one Genral was marching fom West Africa through Tcahd to Egypt/Lybia IIRC)
no infos on the Indian Ocean posessions…
Morocco and Algeria were defended by vichy troops when the allies landed there - put up a little fight and surrendered, but this forced GErmany/Italy to ship troops to Tunesia -i believe at the same time Germny decided to get rid of Vichy and occupied it.
So the simplest rule for Vichy would be - put some troops in the territories - no build up - prevented by the treaty with Germany ;) - if one side decides to attack a Vichy territory the troops defend for ONE combat round and then the attacker gets the territory.
If France has a fleet at the time of the surrender Brit ships should be forced to attack them - with ALL adjacent units, but after one combat round the survivors join the Free french…
just my 2 cents
BTW - please stop the Froggy bashing :D
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