Elche (+18) vs Gamerman01 (x) BM4 rematch

[elche]

Game History

Round: 5

    Purchase Units - Russians
        Russians buy 2 armour, 3 artilleries and 6 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Russians
        1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Karelia to Novgorod
        2 infantry moved from Tambov to Bryansk
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Bryansk
        1 infantry moved from Archangel to Belarus
        1 fighter moved from Russia to Belarus

    Combat - Russians
        Battle in Novgorod
            Russians attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
            Germans defend with 1 airfield, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 mech_infantry
                Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Novgorod, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 0,83 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 mech_infantry in Novgorod, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 mech_infantry owned by the Germans lost in Novgorod
            Russians win, taking Novgorod from Germans with 1 artillery and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 1
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
        Battle in Bryansk
            Russians attack with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Bryansk, round 2 : 2/4 hits, 1,50 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Bryansk, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Bryansk
            Russians win, taking Bryansk from Germans with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
        Battle in Belarus
            Russians attack with 1 fighter and 1 infantry
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Belarus, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Belarus, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Belarus
            Russians win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Russians
        1 fighter moved from Belarus to Russia
        1 fighter moved from Bryansk to Russia
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Bryansk to Russia
        1 infantry moved from Volgograd to Caucasus
        1 aaGun, 8 artilleries and 10 infantry moved from Tambov to Russia
        1 artillery moved from Russia to Vologda
        2 infantry moved from Novosibirsk to Vologda
        4 infantry moved from Novosibirsk to Samara
        3 infantry moved from Timguska to Novosibirsk
        2 infantry moved from Yakut S.S.R. to Buryatia
        1 aaGun and 3 infantry moved from Sakha to Buryatia
        1 aaGun moved from Karelia to Novgorod
        1 artillery moved from Russia to Samara
        1 artillery moved from Russia to Samara
        1 infantry moved from Tambov to Volgograd
        2 infantry moved from Tambov to Samara

    Place Units - Russians
        1 infantry placed in Volgograd
        2 armour, 3 artilleries and 5 infantry placed in Russia

    Turn Complete - Russians
        Russians collect 27 PUs; end with 27 PUs
        Trigger Russians 2 Persia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 29 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Germans regular : 1,00
Russians regular : 2,00

r5 (2).tsvg

[elche]

Sometimes I break China rule when attach rus inf in Kansu or take Novosibirsk without fight. I wont but I forget.
You like the Grauen Wölfe.
Please tell me after the game what you had done against your own sub tactic.

[elche]

Sorry not Novosibirsk, I mean Timguska.

[gamerman01]

When Japan and USA are not at war with one another,

USA can’t leave any ship in a sea zone that borders a Japanese controlled territory, which includes islands. It doesn’t matter which zones are kamikaze zones.

For example, the sub and destroyer that start at the Philippines can’t go to Paulau, Carolines, Marianas, Marshalls, zone 37 (Siam), Iwo Jima, or any of the sea zones that border China because they are Japanese controlled.

Japan can’t leave sea units in any zone that is within 2 zones of Alaska or WUS, so has to be 3 zones away.

The restrictions in bold above are the only restrictions. Each power has 1 restriction.

In either case, there is NO restriction from leaving sea units in a zone that the future enemy occupies. So for example, Japan could move ships to Hawaii no matter what US ships are there. It’s more than 2 zones away from WUS so it’s legal. If Japan were to send ships to Guam while not declaring war, the US could still move a ship from the Philippines to Guam even though the Japanese ship is there, because the only restriction is that it not be adjacent to a Japanese controlled territory.

[gamerman01]

Yes, the Kansu and Timguska situation being next to Mongolia is strange.

The German subs? Sure, ask me later

[gamerman01]

J5.tsvg

[elche]

Thank you very much. I hope I knew all rules now, but not sure.

[elche]

Game History

Round: 5

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 2 artilleries, 3 destroyers, 1 fighter, 2 infantry, 1 submarine, 1 tactical_bomber and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Americans
        1 submarine moved from 54 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        3 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 54 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Morocco to 91 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 3 infantry, 1 submarine, 1 tactical_bomber and 2 transports moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
        1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux

    Combat - Americans
        Battle in 110 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 1 artillery, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 1 infantry, 1 submarine, 1 tactical_bomber and 2 transports
            Germans defend with 1 destroyer
                Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 1 tactical_bomber and 2 transports in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/5 hits, 2,33 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 destroyer in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the Germans lost in 110 Sea Zone
            Americans win with 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 1 submarine, 1 tactical_bomber and 2 transports remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
            Casualties for Germans: 1 destroyer
        Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
        Battle in Holland Belgium
        Battle in 42 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 3 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
            Japanese defend with 1 destroyer
                Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 42 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 3 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber in 42 Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/4 hits, 2,17 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 destroyer in 42 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the Japanese lost in 42 Sea Zone
            Americans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from Germans, taking Holland Belgium from Germans, taking 42 Sea Zone from Japanese with 3 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 destroyer

    Non Combat Move - Americans
        3 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 42 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 26 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        2 carriers moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Hawaiian Islands to Queensland
        1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
        1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 26 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 mech_infantry moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland
        1 infantry moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland
        1 fighter moved from Western United States to Hawaiian Islands
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Eastern United States to 101 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 destroyer, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Morocco
        2 mech_infantrys moved from Morocco to Tunisia
        1 armour moved from Tobruk to Egypt
        1 submarine moved from 105 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Eastern United States to Gibraltar

    Place Units - Americans
        1 transport placed in 101 Sea Zone
        2 destroyers, 1 submarine and 1 transport placed in 10 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer placed in 101 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber placed in Eastern United States
        Americans undo move 4.
        1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry placed in Eastern United States
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber placed in Western United States

    Turn Complete - Americans
        Americans collect 55 PUs; end with 55 PUs
        Trigger Americans 7 North Africa Beach Head: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 60 PUs
        Trigger Americans 6 Western Europe Beach Head: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 65 PUs
        Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 75 PUs
        Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 80 PUs
        Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 85 PUs

    Purchase Units - Chinese
        Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
        Chinese buy 4 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Chinese
        Trigger Chinese Guerilla Yunnan: Chinese has 1 infantry placed in Yunnan
        3 infantry moved from Chahar to Jehol
              Chinese take Jehol from Japanese
        1 infantry moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
              Chinese take Kwangsi from Japanese
        7 infantry moved from Hopei to Anhwe
        1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Anhwe

    Combat - Chinese
        Chinese creates battle in territory Yunnan
        Battle in Anhwe
            Chinese attack with 8 infantry
            Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Chinese roll dice for 8 infantry in Anhwe, round 2 : 1/8 hits, 1,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Anhwe, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Anhwe
            Chinese win, taking Yunnan from Japanese, taking Anhwe from Japanese with 8 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Chinese
        1 infantry moved from Szechwan to Kweichow
        1 infantry moved from Shensi to Kweichow

    Place Units - Chinese
        1 infantry placed in Jehol
        1 infantry placed in Anhwe
        2 infantry placed in Anhwe

    Turn Complete - Chinese
        Chinese collect 14 PUs; end with 15 PUs

    Purchase Units - British
        British buy 2 armour, 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
        UK_Pacific buy 1 artillery and 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - British
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 39 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 42 Sea Zone to Java
        1 submarine moved from 39 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone

    Combat - British
        Battle in 38 Sea Zone
            British attack with 1 submarine
            Japanese defend with 2 transports
                2 transports owned by the Japanese lost in 38 Sea Zone
            British win with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14
            Casualties for Japanese: 2 transports
        Battle in Java
            British attack with 1 artillery and 1 infantry
            Japanese defend with 1 armour and 1 infantry
                British roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Java, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 armour and 1 infantry in Java, round 2 : 2/2 hits, 0,83 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese, 1 artillery owned by the British and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Java
            Japanese win with 1 armour remaining. Battle score for attacker is -4
            Casualties for British: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - British
        1 fighter moved from India to Anhwe
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Eastern Persia to Turkmenistan
        1 armour moved from Persia to Turkmenistan
        1 infantry moved from Northwest Persia to Caucasus
        1 armour moved from Iraq to Caucasus
        1 infantry moved from Kazakhstan to Volgograd
        1 submarine moved from 81 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 106 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to Scotland
        1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to United Kingdom
        1 aaGun moved from United Kingdom to Scotland
        2 infantry moved from United Kingdom to Scotland
        2 cruisers and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Iraq
        1 mech_infantry moved from Egypt to Iraq
        1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 39 Sea Zone to 80 Sea Zone
        4 artilleries and 10 infantry moved from India to West India
        2 infantry moved from Persia to Eastern Persia
        3 infantry moved from Egypt to Trans-Jordan
        1 armour moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
        1 mech_infantry moved from Morocco to Tunisia
        2 infantry moved from Morocco to Algeria
        1 armour moved from 91 Sea Zone to Morocco

    Place Units - British
        1 carrier and 1 destroyer placed in 110 Sea Zone
        2 armour and 1 infantry placed in Persia

    Turn Complete - British
        British collect 36 PUs; end with 36 PUs

    Place Units - UK_Pacific
        1 artillery and 3 infantry placed in India

    Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
        UK_Pacific collect 9 PUs; end with 9 PUs
        Trigger UK Pacific 4 No Enemy Submarines: UK_Pacific met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 12 PUs
        Some Units in India change ownership: 1 artillery and 3 infantry

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Chinese regular : -0,33
Americans regular : 0,83
Japanese regular : 0,50
Germans regular : -0,33
British regular : 0,33

uk5 (2).tsvg

[gamerman01]

Unfortunately, you broke a rule. You can’t load 4 units onto 2 transports and drop one from each in amphibious assault. You have to unload both units because you just picked them up.

I also was unaware of this rule until JDOW pointed it out to me.

Page 16 of the Europe 2nd edition manual, under transports. “if a transport loads land units during the combat move phase, it must offload those units to attack a hostile territory as part of an amphibious assault during the conduct combat phase, or it must retreat during the sea combat step of the amphibious assault sequence while attempting to do so.”

So if you load up 2 on a transport in combat movement phase, you have to drop them both. The only way you can drop 1 of 2, is if you had them previously loaded on a previous turn.

Please let me know how you want to remedy this, thanks!

[elche]

Thank you. I think you know the rules very good. Didnt know that.
Just say it with the rules and break a rule in next turn. Who can this tell about himself. :anguished:
OK, I hope now, i knew all rules.
I unload both.
edit-uk5 (2).tsvg

[gamerman01]

You are welcome, thanks for fixing.
I am getting swarmed enough by your Allies so I have to make those green Americans follow the rules to keep me alive.

Something isn’t working with that file, at least for me, I’m getting error messages. Editing can be tricky in TripleA.

So I will edit it the same way you did, and upload here. Infantry on Holland, artillery to Normandy

edit-uk5 Gman.tsvg

[gamerman01]

I5.tsvg

[gamerman01]

If you’re getting the errors that I am, when viewing history, I guess we have to load a previous file to see history. Anything before UK4 I think :p Don’t know what causes that.

[gamerman01]

Edit to noncom 2 cruisers to 99

I5 edit.tsvg

[JDOW]

@elche said in Elche (+18) vs Gamerman01 (x) BM4 rematch:

The fig in sz111 was nice.
Looks interesting without Vichy and german Navy. Never had a planed non-Vichy game.
Or will you attack with Italians ? If not I can use french ships and inf in Northafrika ?

I believe, in the long run, Vichy hurts the Axis more than it helps in total.
There are certainly benefits, especially if Axis goes for some kind of Blitz on a certain objective.

In case Axis is not afraid of having a longer game, slowly grinding their way through, the income benefits and extra territories for bases Allies get outweigh the early benefits Axis gets.

[gamerman01]

Thanks JDOW

Unfortunately for me in my other game, I accidentally triggered Vichy on F3. AeV was sly in triggering it. +5 income for him per turn and the only consolation I get is that I did get South France with Germany and he has to go out of his way to pick up some of those territories. Oops.

[gamerman01]

Oh, and I think of your comment often, about getting Leningrad “en passant”. Not working so well for me vs. elche, but he did siphon off considerable red army to defend it

[gamerman01]

And hello! We haven’t chatted in the same place for a long time

[gamerman01]

My biggest thing on Vichy is siphoning (my new favorite word?) off units to take Normandy. I want every single ground unit at Paris because I do not want to lose to a France invasion gone wrong. People look at the percentages, and averages, but you don’t want to lose ANY more mech or artillery than necessary.

[gamerman01]

Uh, plus it can be stopped by the UK pretty easily on UK1 if they want to.