L22 Martin (X) - Feltmarskal (L+24) BM

[feltmarskal]

@martin
5ed49025-e1e3-4435-b0a5-527fb811574f-triplea_38106_9jap (11) SCRAMBLE SZ 95.tsvg
SCRAMBLE SZ 95

[Martin]

No thank you, no scrambling.

I believe this is the first time ever that I see a battle taking place in Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba :slightly_smiling_face:

[feltmarskal]

@martin
c7a87bbc-1118-4edb-95e5-2e1ed4fe1065-5ed49025-e1e3-4435-b0a5-527fb811574f-triplea_38106_9jap-11-scramble-sz-95 (3) USA.tsvg
USA

[feltmarskal]

@feltmarskal
9207de6d-590d-42ff-86a4-4a56bc153080-c7a87bbc-1118-4edb-95e5-2e1ed4fe1065-5ed49025-e1e3-4435-b0a5-527fb811574f-triplea_38106_9jap-11-scramble-sz-95-3-usa CHINA.tsvg
CHINA

[Martin]

Congratulations - I resign! The Allies’ victory cannot be prevented. It was a bad start for me from round 1. I learned from you the move with the UK in round 1, landing all aircrafts in Greece. Very interesting - I will try it out as well! :-)

See you in a re-match, potentially in June. I will post the result during the day.

[feltmarskal]

@martin
00ad736a-c24b-4b04-a16c-1906a67796ab-9207de6d-590d-42ff-86a4-4a56bc153080-c7a87bbc-1118-4edb-95e5-2e1ed4fe1065-5ed49025-e1e3-4435-b0a5-527fb811574f-triplea_38106_9jap-11-scramble-sz-95-3-usa-china UK.tsvg
UK

[Martin]

I give up! You won again - I need to figure out how yo can be beaten :-) Well played! I posted the result.

[feltmarskal]

@martin

@feltmarskal
I got thes other game going with AndrewAAGamer, he took india from me round foour and moscow round six but i was fucked from the start.

[AndrewAAGamer]

@martin said in L22 Martin (X) - Feltmarskal (L+24) BM:

Congratulations - I resign! The Allies’ victory cannot be prevented. It was a bad start for me from round 1. I learned from you the move with the UK in round 1, landing all aircrafts in Greece. Very interesting - I will try it out as well! :-)

See you in a re-match, potentially in June. I will post the result during the day.

Actually this move is illegal. The UK air units may not land in Greece the same Turn that UK lands ground forces there for the first time.

Per the Europe 1940 2nd Edition Rules - Page 22 (Bold added by me)

Air Units: An air unit must end its move in an eligible
landing space. Air units can land in any territory that
was friendly (but not friendly neutral) at the start of the
current turn.

[Martin]

@andrewaagamer @feltmarskal

Thank you very much, Andrew!

England landed in Greece and let the air force land there, in round 4, preventing Italy from taking it back the same round. In the following round, the UK forces including these planes destroyed the Italian forces with the planes, which would not have been possible without the illegal landing the round before. Germany was then forced to take troops back from Russia to counter the British forces, and these forces were greatly missed in Russia.

I was so impressed by this new “tactic”, that I applied it myself in round 1 against elche, although not with the full British air force… It is the same situation here: Germany had to send forces to Greece instead of Russia, and I appear to be winning that running game with the Allies. So much about knowing the rules…

Well, this is unfortunate, and I do not know how to treat this situation: Apparently, I lost this same partially due to the illegal move which was weakening both Germany and Italy. And on top, I am now winning a game due to the same illegal move.

I guess the right thing would be to annul both games :face_with_rolling_eyes:

[AndrewAAGamer]

I don’t have enough experience in this league to know how they handle issues like this. My guess is there is no official statement.

As a non-interested bystander I would think the following options are available:

• Null the game(s) due to the illegal move

• Revert back to the moment the illegal move occurred and continue the game(s) from there

• Let the game(s) stand since the illegal move was not discovered by either active Player

Personally I would favor the nulling option if it was my game.

[AndrewAAGamer]

You might think about asking Panther or Gamerman01 for an official answer.

[Martin]

Thank you again, Andrew - your advice is highly appreciated. I like the options you proposed and prefer the nulling option. Resuming the match just before the rule breaking might not worked, as the plan to have the plans land in Greece will have influenced Feltmarskal before; and it might then be him who is disadvantaged.

In my other game, where I copied the miracle tactic, this happened in round one, so I will propose annulling and re-starting the game with the same bid.

I will ask the the persons you mentioned.

Best regards,
Martin

[Martin]

@gamerman01 @andrewaagamer @feltmarskal

Dear Gamerman,

Can you please kindly have a look at the situation described below and advise how to solve this?

This is related to the illegal landing of the British air force in the freshly taken Greece and the further disadvantage of the Axis, namely Germany. It is impacting this finished match and also another running game of mine. I both cases, neither player did notice the error.

Thank you very much in advance for your help,
best regards,
Martin

[gamerman01]

Yeah, this is why some things should be resolved on a case by case basis.

Because it was round 4 (lots of hours in the game), and because it was a significant move (especially with 5 fighters and a bomber in a key spot), and because I’m reading that you both missed it (which you apparently both did since you kept playing), I think you should try to agree on where to go back to, and play from there.

If both players agree, go back to the UK4 non-combat phase, the purchase phase, or any other point before that like beginning of US4 if the Allied player was planning on making this move he didn’t know was illegal. (Just suggestions)

If you both agree to go back but can’t agree on when, then I think it should be UK4 beginning of non-combat phase.

I see the Allies are ahead in total unit value by about 550 at the end of UK4. I have tracked TUV by turn in many games that I’ve been in, and 550 is a competitive game, with maybe the Allies having a slight edge, so without studying the game at all, it seems going back to round 4 would maybe be fair for both. But again, both players must agree, otherwise the game will not count. In the league, if both players agree you can do almost anything.

Probably the Allied player had been making moves or at least planned the UK move thinking he could land planes on Greece immediately, and the Axis player wasn’t aware he couldn’t. Therefore neither player has the right to demand, whereas normally the one who made the illegal move would be at the other’s mercy.

[Martin]

Thank you very much for your analysis and explanation - much appreciated!:+1:

I propose to jump back to round 4 UK non-combat move phase or before.

I will do the same in my other running match. In the other match, I didn’t wait for too long but executed the mistake in round one, LOL.

[Martin]

Dear all, @gamerman01 @andrewaagamer @feltmarskal @elche

Inspired by Feltmarskal’s “magic move”, I unknowingly broke the same rule when playing against elche. I informed elche that my landing of the UK air force in round 4 was against the rules. Elche acknowledged that this had no material impact on our game mechanics and the game result, and he just accepted my victory. I shall do the same and accept my defeat against Feltmarskal.

Luckily, this chapter is now closed, and some of us increased the level of rule knowledge ;-)

Thank you all for your help – it is a great community!

[gamerman01]

Thanks for gracefully closing the issue!!