L22 #1 trulpen (X+6) vs ArtofWar1947 (A) P2V

[trulpen]

Since you scramble it’s a do-over.

[ArtofWar1947]

@trulpen

I would have scrambled 3 fighters in any case.

It was your mistake that you did not ask for a scramble decision, and the Allies should not have to pay for your mistake. It is patently unfair to get a bad roll, then say, oops, I made a mistake, I get a re-roll.

I will not tolerate a second favorable dice roll in this game being wiped out.

[ArtofWar1947]

@artofwar1947

The scramble decision was/is obvious. The Allies need to win the battle or, at least, make it extremely costly for the Germans. Anything less and Germany has naval supremacy in the Atlantic and the game is essentially over.

With no scramble, the Allies stand only a 0 to 3% chance of victory; the Germans are left with 9 or 10 units on average; and the average TUV swing is in the lows 60s. Game over.

With a scramble, the Allies stand a 40% to 48% chance of victory; the Germans are left with about 3 units on average; and the average TUV swing varies widely between -3 and and +10 (but substantially below not scrambling). This option provides the only hope the Allies have to stay in the game.

Given the circumstances, it is patently unfair to get an unfavorable dice roll for the German subs (2 misses) and then claim a do-over. We can take the issue up with moderators if you wish.

[trulpen]

I definitely see your point.

However, if there’d had been terrific dice, I would’ve disregarded them as well. Then I’m sure you wouldn’t have complained.

It’s not about the situation, it’s about the principle.

The roll happened by mistake, by the touchpad accidentally activating the battle. I didn’t even confirm the sub hits, but it just rolled on. Don’t know exactly what happened, but probably it became a click when I tried to move the cursor in order to save the game for a scramble decision.

In this situation I could continue the battle, selecting casualties for you and then you’d demand a scramble and the battle would be redone. As is how I proceed in matters such as this.

I have a recent game where my opponent did a desperate scramble and instead of a terrific roll I got a bad one, but I still redid that battle, since that’s my principle regarding scrambles.

[trulpen]

Also, sorry to say, but this game is essentially lost for the Allies notwithstanding the outcome of this specific battle.

[ArtofWar1947]

@trulpen

Take it up with the monitors.

[trulpen]

@gamerman01

We have a situation.

[gamerman01]

I’ll be there - just can’t right now - remind me if I don’t post an answer in 24 hours please -

[ArtofWar1947]

@gamerman01

Gamerman, there is no rush; I have lost interest in the game. I regret adding to your workload, but I have a problem with erasing initial, unfavorable dice rolls. This seems to have become a trend.

Let me be clear. Previously, I complained that my opponent chose to ignore a Marti notice with a highly favorable outcome for me. Although Trulpen’s email was listed on this email, he would not acknowledge receiving it. Seven minutes later I received Marti notifications that indicated the battle had been restarted, and this time the outcome for me was unfavorable. The most plausible explanation for the data is that the battle was joined and the initial round was unfavorable to my opponent, and so he restarted the game. I dislike raising the issue of cheating, but no other explanation has been offered. We need a clear policy to prevent the possibility of a player ignoring unfavorable dice rolls to gain an advantage.

[trulpen]

Sorry, sir, but I did not cheat in that previous situation. I have no explanation to it other than bug, but I only did that battle once. I can assure you that I have no interest in cheating. Sad that you accuse me of such.

[gamerman01]

I’ve only played 1 game lately, and have read reports of MARTI e-mails not always working right or something. I hear you and rolling dice more than once and keeping the best is obviously a terrible thing to do, but I’d have to be absolutely sure that’s the case before I would accuse anyone of anything, of course.

I’ll look into this, this week, but I may not be able to determine one way or the other what happened.

[gamerman01]

Just saw trulpen’s post after I posted FYI - my position remains the same - benefit of the doubt to both of you and I can try to investigate but probably can’t tell what happened.

[trulpen]

No problem, no stress. Hope we can solve these issues.

[ArtofWar1947]

@gamerman01

I wish there was plausible alternative explanation, but none has been offered. For example, if there was a bug as Trulpen argued, why would the “pre-battle” Marti favorable to the Allies and addressed to both of us (pasted in below) be sent only to me. Note that clicking on the verification link brings up the following message: Dice were authentic: 2,2,6,4,1,1,3,2,4,1,2.

marti@triplea-game.org April 3, 2022 at 4:07 PM
Trulpen vs artofwar P2V:Americans roll dice for 3 carriers, 1 destroyer, 5 fighters, 2 tactical_bombers and 1 transport in 97 Sea Zone, round 2
To: hurv@hotmail.se, art.baroody@gmail.com

Your dice are: 2,2,6,4,1,1,3,2,4,1,2
Have a nice day.

Verification Info: Follow this link to check if your dice are authentic
https://dice.marti.triplea-game.org/MARTI_verify.php?iv=ZF%2BDC0Or1n1lCts285k0rqfOjTyQ1ZImaCf0015htFk%3D&enc=FuNkHyuqAgmAjMzWiJ2%2FxIKHCgv4AOHpzRXQTglI3oAeoThHXkGoNeXh0vpwnrwCrCfbh9JWiTzoiNYhwugOiDoeqHkQ98BKqZOGimikUDlcDjXUo4k%2FSgJ6DX00QXGYyrnXG7PWDi7CGsTRUALetH1c7Fa0%2FI03gjns73Ww1ShWT9A71eoCYzUAT0EJK4%2B1EHA9dGBAznUUE19ojgwHz6RYHiWFu8SE%2BttQeOm996vLQ5Obs0XSEA6D8FV7plYrepAjdJDaPTuFQko%2FHYXBo77DO%2FtpEGBwdOoBDy8e8EML8ZYJ0l%2B7OVLZfksCJKrrDBGSfAONlCNm56Vn%2FggT5xd6YbcXWhoqLDQf%2BjCo%2BUHhoyqHaDWsYHITesHKLYq3YaPIYi5%2BJ5gXnzZG2VQ8Gncqz63eIrXKixyWu9XOFFQ3Pr2YjAlzGRs%3D

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ZF%2BDC0Or1n1lCts285k0rqfOjTyQ1ZImaCf0015htFk%3D
…
FuNkHyuqAgmAjMzWiJ2%2FxIKHCgv4AOHpzRXQTglI3oAeoThHXkGoNeXh0vpwnrwCrCfbh9JWiTzoiNYhwugOiDoeqHkQ98BKqZOGimikUDlcDjXUo4k%2FSgJ6DX00QXGYyrnXG7PWDi7CGsTRUALetH1c7Fa0%2FI03gjns73Ww1ShWT9A71eoCYzUAT0EJK4%2B1EHA9dGBAznUUE19ojgwHz6RYHiWFu8SE%2BttQeOm996vLQ5Obs0XSEA6D8FV7plYrepAjdJDaPTuFQko%2FHYXBo77DO%2FtpEGBwdOoBDy8e8EML8ZYJ0l%2B7OVLZfksCJKrrDBGSfAONlCNm56Vn%2FggT5xd6YbcXWhoqLDQf%2BjCo%2BUHhoyqHaDWsYHITesHKLYq3YaPIYi5%2BJ5gXnzZG2VQ8Gncqz63eIrXKixyWu9XOFFQ3Pr2YjAlzGRs%3D

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[ArtofWar1947]

@gamerman01

The following are questions I have. Let’s hope there are meta-data available to address them. If so, we could resolve what actually happened.

1. What source triggered the initial “pre-battle” Marti dice rolls? Was the battle information that generated the 4:07 PM 3 April, 2022 Marti notification sent from Trulpen’s computer? If not, from where did it come?
2. Concerning the initial German attack for which neither party received a Marti notification: (a) Were there initial dice rolls by the attacker? (b) If so, was a Marti email generated and sent to both parties?
3. Was a Marti notification of the initial rolls by the US/UK defender (like my 4:07 PM 3 April, 2022 Marti email) sent to Trulpen?

[gamerman01]

Whoo. Really hard to know what’s going on from where I sit. I’ll look at the game board now - if I think trulpen is definitely going to win, then I see no incentive to cheat other than to speed things up (which of course would also be intolerable). Anyway, I’m checking the board to see if that helps me decide anything.
I’ve only done this once before, but one option is to flag trulpen’s line in the standings that he has been accused of cheating. I don’t want to do that.
As for policy to prevent players from ignoring unfavorable dice rolls, I think that’s so obvious, it’s implied. No disrespect meant.

[ArtofWar1947]

@gamerman01

At the time the first possible incident, the outcome of the game was was not clear and the sea battle off if Italy was critical.

Is there no way to check the Marti meta-data for the IP addresses of who (if anyone) initiated a battle (dice roll)?

[gamerman01]

I don’t know those kinds of things about MARTI, I’m sorry.
Since I posted, I realize the dispute is about a 4/3 roll on I21 and now round 28 has been finished, so I wonder why you continued after raising concerns about the I21 dice immediately. It also seemed that you were both cordial in all those following rounds, from what I glanced over.

So I’m just confused as to why 7 more rounds were played if you suspected cheating in an important battle?

Thanks - Gamerman

[ArtofWar1947]

@gamerman01

Do we not have a technician available who check Marti emails?

I did not pursue the allegation of cheating because I did not think anything could/would be done about it, the game was up in the air, and I did not think disregarding initial unfavorable dice rolls would again be an issue. It is now clear that disregarding possible cheating was a mistake.

[gamerman01]

OK, thanks for the answer - I would try P@nther and if he’s not the guy, he probably knows who is