Don't get how Germany can handle UK and Russia with the bombing…

[gnasape]

If all UK/US are doing is SBR, then where’s Japan and Italy?

As for Japan, it starts off with 17 IPC but ends up as a Juggernaut.  It might be you are too used to AA classic.  Try a game of revised and then transition to AA50.  AA50 is a totally different game compared to Classic.  Your traditional buys and tactics that worked in Classic doesn’t really work.

In terms of IPC, Germany should be able to get at least 2 NOs (+10) after the first turn.  That’s at least 41 IPC.

I would suggest reading the tournament or at least the league games in this forum to see what great players do on G1.

As for Allies being overpowered, we have to agree to disagree.

Good luck on your games.

[gnasape]

Deathtwinkie

This is the championship game that’s going on right now:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=14929.0

The games can be found in

Axis and Allies.org Boards > Play by Forum > Play Boardgames

The play boardgames are for open to anyone, there’s tournaments and also league play.

It’s very helpful to browse there games, you need to download AA Battlemap so you can download their maps at the end of their turns to see how the board is setup.  The great thing is that all the moves are posted.

There are so many games and everyone plays a little different but I find that usually there’s a consensus on certain moves that are made on G1/I1/J1 for Axis.

Good luck and good gaming.

[critmonster]

I actually did that though, I spent just 5 IPC at the start in the hopes of getting Radar as I KNEW bombers were going to be a problem for me.  I actually got lucky and got a 6, but then it ended up giving me heavy bombers.

Dude, you got heavy bombers for $5 and you are struggling?!?

[a44bigdog]

Never mind strat bombing. Germany with HBs means the Allies are not going near Europe without a very major navy.

As somebody said this game is vastly different from classic. Bombers are THE go to air unit for Germany. And with what Germany should make on G1 and G2 purchasing several early is not a problem.

[BadSpeller]

This game is a new puzzle to figure out!

Since it’s release, many claims have been made that the game is flawed.

With more play, people are trying new strategies and leaving behind the old thinking (i.e. Industrial Complex in India on UK 1) and learning new ways to use the new layout of pieces/techs/National Objectives.

Now, many have found the depth this game has to offer, without the same old play out every time.

Play more and enjoy solving the puzzle.  :-)

[Deathtwinkie]

@gamerman01:

@Deathtwinkie:

I actually did that though, I spent just 5 IPC at the start in the hopes of getting Radar as I KNEW bombers were going to be a problem for me.  I actually got lucky and got a 6, but then it ended up giving me heavy bombers.

@critmonster:

Dude, you got heavy bombers for $5 and you are struggling?!?

Exactly.  Dude, I’m afraid we can’t take you very seriously.  Play more AA50 with more opponents and then check back again.  Why in the world weren’t you Strat. Bombing HIM from round 1?  As your opponent seems to understand, sometimes the best defense is a strong offense.  Quit obsessing about AA odds and adapt your game.  It’s finding solutions to problems that’s half the fun in this game.

Because at the time I had to use my 1 bomber and it’s new firepower to help my eastern front move farther into Russia, and again, I already said it’s not just UK bombing me, but US bombers too.  And after that and definitely didn’t have the money to buy more bombers.  Sorry, but nobody can play Germany earning 7-10IPC a turn.  If you can’t take me seriously then that’s your problem not mine.  You act like strat bombing UK the first round and the glorious 2-12 damage that would have done is going to stop the bombing that’s still going to come from BOTH UK and US?  No, it’s going to happen no matter what.  Any competent player is going to do this, and Germany simply doesn’t have the resources to be bombed, take on the British navy, reenforce Africa, and still have enough power to push into Russia.  It can’t be done……NOT with losing so much money (7-10left a turn) and only having 1 factory.  Yes, I was wrong not to buy a 2nd factory but that’s it.  Everything else was played properly based on what was going on in front of me.  You make armchair immature comments without knowing all the facts.

and this, “Why in the world weren’t you Strat. Bombing HIM from round 1?  As your opponent seems to understand, sometimes the best defense is a strong offense”  is just absurd.  I already explained why I didn’t bomb him round 1, the eastern push was more important at that time because time is money for Germany.  Maximum push was needed and I needed that firepower at the front more AT THAT TIME.  And this “As your opponent seems to understand” carries no weight.  He’s playing Allies, even a moron would know that you strat bomb as the Allies so it’s an easy no brainer move.  If I was Allies I’d be doing the same, and he’d be Germany with little money.  Would you then say that I’m a better player?  No.  It’s not about the players, it’s about the Allies have a power that’s too easy to do and it’s too tough for Germany to mitigate with only a 1/6 chance of shotdown.

It’s just an unrealistic flaw in the game.  Back in WW2, we lost a LOT of men and bombers before the P51 came along, but this game (as the Allies) flaunts this bombing power with only a 1/6 chance standing in it’s way.  It’s overpowering.

The person that said that I should buy a 2nd factory, that is a valid comment, that’s true.  That would make sense with under these new game rules, but these other comments have no merit and are just uninformed snide remarks.

Thanks to gnasape for that link though, I’ll check into that.  I appreciate your mature reply.

[Deathtwinkie]

I mean, hahaha,  it’s amazing how you pick and choose to suit your view

You said “As your opponent seems to understand, sometimes the best defense is a strong offense”

You seem to completely ignore how I used the bomber to give a better OFFENSE to my eastern front into Russia to allow for a better OFFENSE towards them.  That’s so that I could OFFENSIVELY kill more of their guys and OFFENSIVELY drive further into Russia quicker of with less casaulties.  Um…hi…yes, that’s maximizing my eastern OFFENSE.

Just because I didn’t use it for the strat offense, you throw some cliche at me without thinking ;)    Just,  haha

[Butcher]

Germany doesn’t really need to take a lot of Russian territory in 1941 if the Allies seem to be playing a KGF. Japan can handle that well enough. All Germany has to do is trade 3 Russian territories for a NO, and prevent the capture of valuable territories by the Western Allies.

[critmonster]

If SBR’s are out of control in your playgroup I strongly suggest the fighter intercept optional rule to “get the monkey off your back” so to speak.

[scampb]

Hey Deathwinkie, welcome to the boards and to AA50, it truly is an amazing AA game.  A few points.

*  a second IC will not help you if they are throwing 5 bombers per turn at you.  They will simply have both IC’s needing repair every turn and you just wasted 15 IPC’s.  The second IC strat has been argued on this board at great lengths.  Building the second IC is all dependant on what the Allies are doing.  But I GUARANTEE you if they are focussing on strat bombing it is a bad idea, waste of IPC’s.

*  if you are in that bad of shape with Germany where you cannot build but one or two men per turn, then skip the purshase new units phase on one turn and then pay off the damage and put out as many units as possible on the second turn.  No sense in paying 15-20 IPC’s per turn to put out 1-2 units.  Pay off 15-20 IPC’s every second turn and put out 10 units.

*  Japan in 1941 can be up to 27 IPC’s on J1, depending on how you play it (this is without NO’s though).  And they grow from there, quickly.

*  the comment that one made about not taking you seriously was out of line but I don’t think they meant it in a bad way, really.  There are some very serious players on the forum and if your comments don’t meld with their own beliefs they think it is strange.  What they have to remember is that you said this was your first time playing.  I think it is great that you found your way to the boards to get some advice and put yourself out there asking for it.  Every game will change for you until you have played 20 or so games, 10 as each power before you start to figure out YOUR own best opening moves and what works for YOU.

*  after a few more games please post again about your feelings on the strat bombing because I think they will change.  You just have to figure out your strat to combat that in advance, if required.

*  the interceptor rule works well except you also have to keep your fighters at home to defend which means they cannot stray to far in combat (unless you get long range tech  :-D )

*  read the child boards for the anniversary threads and you can pick up some good info.  And do read through the game logs on the forums, it really helps.

[Funcioneta]

@Deathtwinkie:

I already explained why I didn’t bomb him round 1, the eastern push was more important at that time because time is money for Germany

That’s your flaw: using NOs, with proper movements, axis should get a economic advantage from round 3, and by round 5 should be of 15-20 IPCs. Axis has not to run in this game, are the allies who must run. With a HBs tech, G1, your basic purchase should be 1 bomber each round for SBRs/sinking fleets duty and the rest on land units. Your SBR target should be UK: typically they will collect 22-27 IPCs and England IC is bigger than soviet ICs, so there is a great chance of you making more than 10 IPCs of damage against UK each round. UK cannot make a SBR campaign while repairing such amount of damage

Probably we need a image of the game or such to make a deeper analisys, but I guess you also are ignoring USA with Japan. Bad idea, specially if they are buying bombers instead a Pacific fleet: you can attack Alaska with a big landing force and forcing USA switch to defense (Polar Express strat) or simply annoy them with token raids. You should also aim for Africa and for Pacific islands NOs and such, and if USA is ignoring Japan, there is no way allies can retake Africa with the proper jap setup

Finally, if you collect 40-45 IPCs with Germany, there is no way you are reduced to 7-10 IPCs. At worst, you would be at 20-30 IPCs, enough to buy 7-10 units. Think about tech as someone said. With HBs developed, you should roll land tech tree: it has Improved Industry, war bonds (solutions for SBRs), paras (great weapon to make a combo with your HBs), rockets (it will make UK and USSR live more difficult) and even art and mech inf techs can be good

As someone said, forget Classic strats, this is a whole new world with tons of new strats. If you ask me, I think axis has a big advantage in 1941 scenario

You can use interceptor rule as last ressource, but I think it makes SBRs too bad

[gamerman01]

@Captain:

*  a second IC will not help you if they are throwing 5 bombers per turn at you.  They will simply have both IC’s needing repair every turn and you just wasted 15 IPC’s.  The second IC strat has been argued on this board at great lengths.  Building the second IC is all dependant on what the Allies are doing.  But I GUARANTEE you if they are focussing on strat bombing it is a bad idea, waste of IPC’s.

*  if you are in that bad of shape with Germany where you cannot build but one or two men per turn, then skip the purshase new units phase on one turn and then pay off the damage and put out as many units as possible on the second turn.  No sense in paying 15-20 IPC’s per turn to put out 1-2 units.  Pay off 15-20 IPC’s every second turn and put out 10 units.

*  the comment that one made about not taking you seriously was out of line but I don’t think they meant it in a bad way, really.  There are some very serious players on the forum and if your comments don’t meld with their own beliefs they think it is strange.  What they have to remember is that you said this was your first time playing.  I think it is great that you found your way to the boards to get some advice and put yourself out there asking for it.  Every game will change for you until you have played 20 or so games, 10 as each power before you start to figure out YOUR own best opening moves and what works for YOU.

*  after a few more games please post again about your feelings on the strat bombing because I think they will change.  You just have to figure out your strat to combat that in advance, if required.

Yeah, this is good advice.
I’m sorry about my comment(s), and Crunch is right, I didn’t mean it in a bad way.  I was just kind of in disbelief from what I was reading, but forgot what it’s like to be new to AA50.  Please accept my apology.
+1 to the Captain for his diplomatic mediation.

[squirecam]

Try to forget those yelling at you. :-D

Without NO and without tech, the basic game is in favor of the allies. You need the escort rule to balance out the game.

[Zhukov44]

Re. the OP…

1. If Allies are receiving more money from NOs early on, then Axis isn’t playing right.  As Axis, make sure you are aggressively denying the Allies NOs, and are getting as many Axis ones as possible.  Ultimately, even in a KGF it should take a while for the Allies to deny the NOs.

2. If the Allies are spending all their cash on bombers (and teching for heavies) then Germany should counter appropriately.  Either buy mainly infantry and wait for Japan or go aggressive and take out Russia while the Allies are buying techs and planes.

[Lynxes]

Zhukov44 is right on point 2, if Allies neglect building transports and invasion troops you should build 5-6 tanks per turn as Germany and send them East together with some infantry. Together with Italian invasions of two full transports per turn into the south of Russia this should take Russia out of the game before too long. Once you reach around 15 tanks put together you’ll be surprised how quickly Russian infantry stacks vanish.

An IC in France is there to protect against a heavy invasion strategy by Allies, because then you need tons, tons of infantry. If they do heavy SBR, better capture Russian ICs!

[fanofbond]

hey at least the allies are not doing max damage on italy and half on germany

[bugoo]

@Deathtwinkie:

I mean, every single turn, his US has 57 IPC’s to build with……his regular amount, and he’s getting 15IPC’s every turn from the bonus income.

Where on earth is the US getting that income from?  3 NOs would require Japan to completely ignore the pacific, and/or for them to be taking France.  Sorry mate but you need to get a better axis game plan.

And yes, SBRs are good and strong, but only as an element in the KGF strat, not as the entire plan.

[katfishkris]

my suggestion to you is to either play a pbf game, or check some of them out.  this will give you ideas,  what to do if allies are SBRing you to pieces, and what to do offensively & defensively.  i have played as the allies, bombing the crap out of germany, and still lost.  i have played as the axis, being on the recieving end of the bombings, and still won.  check out the other games bud, it will help.  if you like, we can start a game just to have a little walk through.  imo, japan is the key to an axis victory,  germany and italy just help out, sometimes alot.  good luck.  and go for radar or improved factories.  SBRs wont bother you any more if you can get both of those.  just $5 each turn till you hit something.

[Butcher]

Just out of curiosity, how early did the Med fleet die? It is vital to claiming Allied IPC’s and posing a threat to the southern part of Russia. You should try to keep it alive as long as possible.

[SgtBlitz]

Hey, Deathtwinkie (apologies to gamerman01), welcome to the A&A forums, where veteran players will gleefully tear your strategies apart but hopefully offer good advice in exchange.  Lots of good advice out there about Allied bombing strats.  Personally I disagree with the consensus that SBRs aren’t so bad, as the cost of bombers is lowered in AA50 and the HB tech is inevitable by end game since tech is so cheap now.  Britain and the US also start with a hefty supply of ready bombers and extra IPCs to build them, where the Axis does not.  Allies have it especially good as Britain is an excellent bomber base and can hit any German or Italian fleet SZ as well as Germany and Italy.

You did have a bit of advantage at the start of the game though, many players DREAM of getting HBs round one in a tech game, so you’re at fault there for not exploiting it.  1 bomber a round if you can afford it as germany gives you a lot of flexibility.  Main thing you need to learn is how to cope with other strategies and revising your play, it sounds like you got stuck in tunnel-vision mode in Russia and just couldn’t find a way around the Allied bombing campaign.  Captain Crunch gave some great advice there.  If nothing else, learn to exploit the enemy’s strategy and not just grimly fight against the damage; that’s what the enemy wants.

A and A is one of those games that sucks you in and doesn’t let go, and the dice aspect of it is really harmful in that you can have the best strategies in the world and still LOSE, so don’t feel bad about it happening.  The trick is to playing the game so that losing any particular battle doesn’t lose you the entire game, so you must keep your strategies OPEN.  Don’t continue on the same path that’s losing if you can help it; try getting to the objectives some other way.  Axis must really push hard early in AA50 41 games to get a favorable Axis/Allied IPC balance, but it’s still a lot easier than the 42 scenario, or hell, even Revised.

If you enjoy quick games I suggest giving TripleA a try, its pretty good freeware, and you can find plenty of players to cut your teeth on.