@ Jennifer, how delusional can you possibly be??? It’s not about tech or no tech, the players who wins a series of games is better than the players who loses that series of games! You disagree with this statement??
The question is how many games between 2 players is necessary to determine the better player. Maybe 10 games, maybe 20, but probably not more than 30-40 games.
This is not a law of nature, but very close imo. The players who wins many more games than other players, regardless of what setting is used, being LL or ADS, tech or no tech, Revised or AA50, optional rules or no optional rules is better than the players who loses more games than he/she wins.
Are you seriously claiming that the weaker player will win a series of games, and not the better player? That is the conclusion you are making with your statement. I chose to define this as stupidity, and delusions, b/c if any player plays against any other player in a series of games, it’s the total result that will matter, not if said players prefer tech or no tech.
The depth that tech adds to the game is randomness, aka good and bad luck, aka good and bad dice rolls, but this will even out in the long run, that is, a series of games. I have a hard time believing that you are a math teacher. Plz stop lying about aspects that is close to the laws of the nature.
I’m repeating the only possible conclusion about your statement, if you do not see this yourself, your statements claim that it is not the better player who will win in the long run, but the player(s) who prefer tech!!!
this thread is sure having a tendency to go off topic…
@Subotai:
@ Jennifer, how delusional can you possibly be??? It’s not about tech or no tech, the players who wins a series of games is better than the players who loses that series of games! You disagree with this statement??
That’s been my point. If you cannot win in the average game with technology, then I feel you are the inferior player. To me, blaming a game loss on your opponent(s) getting technology is as silly as blaming it on dice. You are either the better player(s) or not!
Coupled with that is that many players who refuse to play with technology also seem to lose a lot more often when technology is used. To me, that means they are probably the lesser of the two players, skill wise. Obviously, since they tend to lose more games when playing with technology, that is why they refuse to play with technology. Which leads me to the indicator that if a player refuses to play a game with technology available, they are probably - in my opinion - the lesser player. (These are also the types of players who play a very specific game, which is to mean, they expect their opponent to act in a certain manner and plan to use a specific over all strategy which they will select from their list of strategies based on how their opponent is playing. This is why I creamed NCSCSwitch in our KJF game together, he just could not handle a Russia that was overly aggressive, a suicidal England and an America bombing the crud out of the Japanese navy. It was not in his play style, he had no strategy to pull out of his bag to deal with it, as such, he had to think and thus, ended up losing.)
It is a matter of fact that using tech means more randomness, but this will not matter in the long run. Agree or disagree?
Tech and/or ADS/LL and every other variant does not have a greater influence on players skills level, it’s the total statistics that matter. To put it very simple, I’m not a better or lesser player than you b/c I prefer no tech, I’m a better or lesser player than you if I win or lose more games against you, for a certain number of games. This has nothing to do with tech or no tech, b/c it’s the total number of wins and losses which determines who is the better player. How can I explain this any simpler? You are obsessed with tech or no tech, but this aspect has no relevance at all. All that matters is that in whatever setting is used, for a certain number of games, the better player is the one who wins more than he/she loses. Tech or no tech is absolutely irrelevant in deciding the players skills. And this is not about my or your opininon, it’s as simple as the best player will win in the long run.
Tech or no tech is irrelevant for playing skills, as is LL or ADS, it’s the number of wins and losses which determines the best players regardless of if the games are with tech or no tech.
And it is not about how I feel or how you feel, it’s about empirical data. I don’t like tech, and you prefer tech, but this matter is not about feelings, it’s about facts. The better player will win regardless of tech or no tech. And I can assure you, that the best A&A players who prefer LL and no tech, are also very good in ADS and tech, but I doubt that they will waste their time by showing you this simple fact.
Can we please talk about Hasbro shutting down tripleA instead of debating tech it yet ANOTHER thread.
@bugoo, I totally agree, now, how about a $5 unit bid for allies, AA50 41 +NO, LL, no tech game, I’m axis :evil: :-)
Sometimes I have a hard time controlling my feelings… :oops:
But I don’t think TripleA will be shut down, not even with the A&A maps included, it’s just a pity that the development process has been halted. I really like to see a stable 1.0.4. with AA50.
Is there a game lobby for trippla anywhere? IRC etc?
Whats with the apathy here?
I thought you guys liked Axis and Allies. Who cares if like TripleA or not, send Hasbro an email before they crush more of our community!
As I said, personal opinion Subo. Obviously, no generalization will cover the minutia of numerous players and playing styles. However, it does cover my EXPERIENCE with players. MOST players I have played that refuse to play tech, when they finally DO play a tech game, usually lose. Not because I get a killer tech, but because their skill is lacking. They need a static game where the rules do not change to win. It’s like Hasbro. They need the competition killed to create a static playing field where the rules do not change so they can win.
Doesn’t make the player who refuses to play with tech a bad person anymore than Hasbro refusing to allow competition being a bad company. It just is. Neither seem to be able to compete on an open and free playing field, one that allows competition to make them build a better product or one that forces the player to open his or her mind to knew ideas and new strategies.
Thanks for the email links Veqryn, sent emails off to all those bastards at WoTC and Hasbro. The amount of apathy on these forums is astonishing; Hasbro threatens a DMCA takedown to a freely hosted fanservice of one of their lesser sold products, and the majority of people just flame it into oblivion and even suggest that the program sucked anyway and deserved to be shut down… When Hasbro comes after your AABattlemap and Mapview programs next, don’t expect much support from me… :cry:
Let’s get everyone on the same page here, dammit! Refuse to buy any Hasbro products and let them know that what they are doing is infuriating their fan base by clamping down on fan-made freeware! If they had made a superior product that was worthy of attention that’d be one thing, but threatening copyright infringement on a freeware game that has a total of 300 users worldwide is ridiculous. Most of you out there apparently don’t even like TripleA, even though somehow it was popular enough to have been shut down.
Definitely NOT buying AA1942 after Hasbro has completely eliminated any chance of me having fun with the Axis and Allies franchise anymore. People in town don’t play the boardgame, they can’t stay around for 12 hours to play one game, plus you can’t save those games anyway to pick up later. TripleA was the easiest way for me to find matches in their online lobby and ran generally flawlessly for me. THEY HAD A WORKING VERSION OF AA50 THAT I WANTED TO USE FOR THE TECH TOURNEY. So F*** you, Hasbro, never buying one of your products again.
Hopefully we’ll get somewhere with this, Veqryn, as we apparently are the only ones who give a rats a**. I just can’t understand the total lack of support from the Axis and Allies Community, as they apparently will use ANY thread to pointlessly debate about Technology rules while Hasbro gleefully pulls the rug out from under them.
Quoted for support. +1 karma there.
I am stunned to see that some people keep on going off-topic, pushing me their opinion down my throat, as if it were the truth.
@ Jennifer, we should make another thread for our discussion, but there is no such thing as a static game in A&A, b/c every single game is different, regardless of what rules are being used.
As for the campaign against TripleA, this has been slowing down the development of TripleA, but TripleA is not down yet, and probalby will not be shut down in the future either.
I believe that the only important thing proposed in this thread is the idea of sending an email to Hasbro explaining why TripleA is a benefit for them!
The discussione about tech and other belongs to other threads. (They are interesting but here are not the place to discuss those ideas)
Sent you a PM Subo. I think you are confused on my meaning.
I think it is a shame what happen to TripleA. I actually liked the graphics for the latest Revised one. I didn’t get the AA50 yet, was waiting for stable release.
I have to say the TripleA developers were/are great, in the past they included the function to post turns directly to the forum which was extremely helpful. Not sure if that was still active though. But still they were open to anything that would help on-line play. IMO any aesthetics issues (graphics) were secondary to the fact that it made on-line play very easy.
@ Jennifer, yes we can either have that discussion on pm, or another thread.
As for TripleA, I don’t think it will be shut down, I think/hope that the developing process can continue, but not at sourceforge. And a stable 1.0.4 including AA50 is not far away. The devs can also continue the bug fixing on their own, and releasing the updates, and/or a stable version when it is finished.
It’s been a week since the DMCA takedown notice, and TripleA stable+unstable has had over 600 downloads until now.
Maybe Hasbro/Wotc will release a software version, but I don’t believe it until I see it.
If they do release a new version of their software, I hope it is at least stable enough to host a 5 player game! The MSN Gaming zone just could not! (It did great for X-Wing vs TIE Fighter though!)
Me and my friends are using the unstable versione 1.0.3.4 and it works really well. There are some bugs to solve, for example about the fleet movement.
We are also sending the email proposed by Veqryn at the email addresses he provided.
I hope that a lot of people join this initiative TripleA developers deserve at least a minimum effort in trying to explain how they have contributed to the A&A community even if they are not Hasbro employee and do not allow Hasbro to make money directly.
Man, looks like this thread is pretty much dead. At least the TripleA lobby is still up and running. aabigdog44 could you put that info about the electronic rights to axis and allies belonging to Atari on the TripleA development site? I’ll link your post on the forums to it.
I suggest you slightly change my email message or write a new version. Unless we can get a shit-ton of people to spam petition emails to hasbro (doubtful given the current complete lack of enthusiasm), personalized and empathetic emails will suit our case much better.
Thank you to anyone who sent emails.
I have made only a slight modification, but from mine group of friend (users of our italian forum) we are sending quite the same email.
I am trying to convince the most people is possible.
