Historically Accurate Gripe

[Imperious Leader]

No those posts/threads went to house rules where they belong.

This thread can stay here because nobody is suggesting historical changes and new units, etc.

It is most untrue that if the game was historical, then “USA” wins every time mantra. Honestly, a more correct way to express it is “The Soviet Union wins every time” In some cases USA might not even be in the game. Nobody can just say that history follows the same result no matter what, otherwise their is no point in studying it. It becomes deterministic, like everything else. Every war begins to be looked at the same way. It does not work that way.

Germany simply follows a different path as they do in all the other strategic level wargames that ARE very historical.

It works in every other historical game and it can work here.

It is not an either this or that or black and white preposition, but rather a collection of advantages built up over time and mistakes made by either side that lost the advantages or gained more advantage.

[WILD BILL]

Yep, just like history. You have a better chance of winning if you can take advantage of your enemies mistakes. Of course it does help if you can out produce them  :-D

[Flashman]

I think the post misses the point.  We want a game which is historically accurate AT SET UP, but which can go any one of a million different ways depending on the roll of a die.  Even if the Allies play it by the book, simple bad luck in even a relatively minor combat can change the course of history.
But if it doesn’t feel like history, we might as well be playing on a chess board.

The main flaw with Global is the assumption that the USSR will join the Allies and that Japan will join the Axis.  I discuss this at length here:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20996.0

In summary, I think Global misses a big trick in not considering this option.  Axis vs Allies is fine for 1942, but for 1940 it could be so much more.

[WILD BILL]

Flash, I know that Russia was a wild card, but why do you think Japan could have joined the allies. The US was really a silent partner to the UK and China in 1940. US/UK were already at odds w/Japan, and both were actively aiding China. The US had placed the embargo on Japan before France fell, then really tightened it up w/invasion of FIC. The Tripartite Pact was signed in Sept 1940, but it had to be in the works for quite some time (well before the fall of France). Even if Japan didn’t attack Pearl/Phil, at some point they would have invaded French/Dutch/UK colonies (allied tt). Maybe after the fall of England?

If Hitler would have gotten UK to sign a one way peace deal (that he thought was possible) to stop hostilities ending the allies before the US came in then yea I guess Japan would essentially be on the same side. Such a deal may have included handing over those colonies. Maybe Germany and Japan would have started a fight over control?

[Flashman]

I think the game should keep all these options open. Suppose a major war had broken out between Russia and Japan (as it did briefly) while Hitler and Stalin were allies.  It’s not impossible to imagine Japan throwing it’s lot in against the Fascist-Communist alliance.
Remember that Nationalist China was also supported by Germany (the uniforms and equipment contained a large amount of German surplus).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-German_cooperation_(1911-1941)

Remember also that the UK & France were all set to send military support to Finland against the Soviets when the Winter War treaty was signed; alliances shifted very quickly in this period, so why assume the game will always follow the historical pattern?

[RedHunter]

4.Committing to much to the Battle of Britain/Canceled Sealion, "Oh Britain isn’t cooperating, looks to the right hey look theirs Russia!

• Usa would have been crippled if the Aircraft carriers were in Pearl Harbor at the time of the bombing

They couldn’t pull off sealion because Britain had…

1. An intact navy defending the english channel
2. An intact airforce that would have loved to see slow moving transports moving in on its costs.

Also as has been said USA broke the code of Japan years earlier. Also even if the carriers had been left it would have just slowed the USA down a bit it would have hardly been crippling. The a-bomb still would have been ready it would have likely just been used in Germany first.

[RedHunter]

@WILD:

Flash, I know that Russia was a wild card, but why do you think Japan could have joined the allies. The US was really a silent partner to the UK and China in 1940. US/UK were already at odds w/Japan, and both were actively aiding China. The US had placed the embargo on Japan before France fell, then really tightened it up w/invasion of FIC. The Tripartite Pact was signed in Sept 1940, but it had to be in the works for quite some time (well before the fall of France). Even if Japan didn’t attack Pearl/Phil, at some point they would have invaded French/Dutch/UK colonies (allied tt). Maybe after the fall of England?

If Hitler would have gotten UK to sign a one way peace deal (that he thought was possible) to stop hostilities ending the allies before the US came in then yea I guess Japan would essentially be on the same side. Such a deal may have included handing over those colonies. Maybe Germany and Japan would have started a fight over control?

Japan would have had to stop grabbing islands to join the allies. But they were allies in the first world war and they got screwed…same with Italy.

[Canuck12]

For once I’ve got to come out and say I agree with IL. Especially the first post. Cheers.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@canuck12

How I see this game is an alternate history simulator-not to represent World War 2 as it actually happened, but to accurately simulate what would have happened if certain things have changed in the war. This means that accurate mechanics are required. For example where’s logistics! It is the biggest problem in the game that no matter the amount of American submarines in the Western Pacific, all Japanese infantry fight at the same value, when historically thousands of troops starved on the islands the Allies didn’t invade! Or the fact that it was really hard to supply Axis troops on the Eastern Front when they are in Russia and have to be supplied from Germany, through Poland and Belarus, two whole countries! This is just one example of a problem with the mechanics-you can find more here:

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/37367/an-accurate-version-of-axis-and-allies-global-1940?_=1636385309883

[All Encompassing Goose]

@superbattleshipyamato :smiley: