Germany purchasing 5 submarines to begin the game might not be such a bad idea, what do you think?
The one possible issue I see is it won’t help you kill any British planes attacking your fleet UK1. And the lack of a carrier makes sinking the British fleet a little harder.
I would agree, maybe 5 subs on G1 isnt the best idea but 16IPC on an AC and then 12IPC on two subs while saving 2IPC? Or maybe 1AC 1sub and 1 destroyer on G1 and then 5 subs on G2 with all that extra income you’ll have
I would agree, maybe 5 subs on G1 isnt the best idea but 16IPC on an AC and then 12IPC on two subs while saving 2IPC? Or maybe 1AC 1sub and 1 destroyer on G1 and then 5 subs on G2 with all that extra income you’ll have
Are you saying that an aircraft carrier should be a standard G1 purchase, regardless of their strategies in any later rounds?
I think an AC is a good investment reguardless of later strategies for Germany. Even if not going for a sealion it will be useful in keeping the German surface fleet around, espically if you are going to be buying lost of submarines in later rounds. If nothing else it could be crucial in blocking US movements towards Europe later on and quickly destroying and navy builds the UK tries early on. Given the large number of subs you’ll have, the US would have to build a sizeable fleet to take down your AC which is a good thing for the Japan as well.
So year, maybe it should be a standard G1 buy
Assuming the the battleship and cruiser will be in 112 at the end of G1, maybe Germany should build 5 subs in 113. The UK might be tempted to use their air and naval forces to sink the battleship and cruiser on UK1. The fighters then land, and UK ships in 112 have no air cover on G2, when you slam them with air and use subs to soak up any hits. Of course they could just go after 112 using only fighters, but then you scramble from W Germany and clobber their airforce taking up to 3 hits with the sea units to preserve the luftwaffe. If they don’t take the bait, you hit 109 with air and subs. UK then needs to spend money on destroyers so they can use air units to clear them out but even that will take a couple of turns. It might even be possible to hit 112 and 109 on G2. Sucks to be UK.
@Vance:
Assuming the the battleship and cruiser will be in 112 at the end of G1, maybe Germany should build 5 subs in 113. The UK might be tempted to use their air and naval forces to sink the battleship and cruiser on UK1. The fighters then land, and UK ships in 112 have no air cover on G2, when you slam them with air and use subs to soak up any hits. Of course they could just go after 112 using only fighters, but then you scramble from W Germany and clobber their airforce taking up to 3 hits with the sea units to preserve the luftwaffe. If they don’t take the bait, you hit 109 with air and subs. UK then needs to spend money on destroyers so they can use air units to clear them out but even that will take a couple of turns. It might even be possible to hit 112 and 109 on G2. Sucks to be UK.
I really like your ideas about baiting 112 and placing 5 subs in 113. However, anything left in 109 after G1, won’t be around by G2 and the new subs placed in 113 can’t reach 109 for lack of a naval base.
I think they can still reach 109 from 113 via 110 thanks to the W German naval base, but the northern route would only get them as far as 119. So I guess 112 would be the better place for the 5 subs.
Now if UK attacks 112, could they prevent Germany using those subs to soak up hits by attacking with fighters and remaining navy EXCEPT the destroyer(s)? I think subs cannot be hit by air units unless an enemy destroyer is present, but please correct me if I am wrong on that.
Similarly, if UK chooses not to attack 112 but wants to protect 109 with its remaining fleet, then maybe they would not want a destroyer in 109? Destroyers in 119 and 110 could block Germany’s surface ships, so taking out the battleship or whatever UK has in 109 could be costly to the luftwaffe? Would it be worth it for UK to maybe buy a new destroyer for 110 and make Germany lose air units?
You are correct about the air units using destroyers to hit subs. I thought that the 5 sub purchase would be a good idea, not just to soak hits during round 1, but also to get early positioning to disrupt convoys. I would even buy a few in Normandy after it falls, and send them to the ivory coast (allied players hate chasing subs south of Gibralter).
I settled on buying 1 carrier, 1 sub and 1 destroyer.
This is followed by 3 subs on G2 and some subs / planes as the game progresses.
This mix brings versatility to the Germans (aircraft carrier enables picking up planes more easily for long range attacks). Destroyer is useful for interdicting 125.
5 subs would leave Germany’s surface fleet too vulnerable against the RAF (not necessarily on G1, but sooner or later). A carrier is also a more convincing threat of sealion (need to protect all those transports really well)
That is a good buy for G1 but I dont need to tell you that. It gives you the ability to control what the U.K. has to buy
Maybe a good question to ask is if the German surface navy is expendable or not.
@Young:
Maybe a good question to ask is if the German surface navy is expendable or not.
You need it to protect your transports. Also important for the subs to not be massacred by 1 destroyer and 7 planes.
5 german subs on G1 = AXIS FAIL.
Sorry.
Could UK just park the remains of their fleet in 119 out of range of Germany’s planes and with fighters in Scotland, and then counterattack Germany’s fleet in 109 without air its cover on UK2? Better than nothing, but UK would be looking pretty naked by this point wouldn’t they?
5 german subs on G1 = AXIS FAIL.
Sorry.
OK, but do you agree that a significant amout of German subs will be needed at some point to disrupt convoys?
@Young:
I would agree, maybe 5 subs on G1 isnt the best idea but 16IPC on an AC and then 12IPC on two subs while saving 2IPC? Or maybe 1AC 1sub and 1 destroyer on G1 and then 5 subs on G2 with all that extra income you’ll have
Are you saying that an aircraft carrier should be a standard G1 purchase, regardless of their strategies in any later rounds?
I will say that, yes. Why? Because the carrier gives Germany options. Sure, they may not want to invest more into the water. That’s their perogative. (Perhaps just a few submarines?). But at least they wont lose a battleship and cruiser and thus, have no option at sea.
Perhaps a round 1 could be: Carrier, 3 Artillery, Save 2 (always feel like I dont have enough artillery for some reason.)
Hellos,
I think that 5 Subs are way too much on Turn 1. Sure you need them in the long run but you also have to buy troops for an early barbarossa in Turn 2 or 3.
I would buy 1 AC 2 Art and 1 Tank, or eventually 2 Tanks.
With all the money from G2, I can buy additional subs.
A carrier & tpt buy G1 threatens UK w/Sea lion (at some point), and they will normally respond w/some protection for England just in case you go through w/it. Now w/Alpha+3 UK feels a little better. No German 5 IPC bonus for London, 4 more hits w/new AA gun rules, and oh Yea a G3 successful Sea lion brings Russia in early (and US). I think it is still important to keep the German navy alive, but I don’t see UK shaking in their boots.
Building a sub or two G1 was a good idea (before Alpha+3) because after G1/UK1 your starting subs are normally dead. If you could keep a German sub(s) on the board the UK wouldn’t get the 5 IPC bonus for no German subs in the Atlantic, but that has also been axed in favor of German subs raiding convoys @3 (not sure this helps). You could still try sub warfare (so they have to buy DDs and tie up planes), but I would make most sub purchases G2. Put them off the coast of Normandy or S France (after you take them, both have naval bases), maybe you can shoot them down to convoy zones in S Africa. You could try exchanging subs for DD’s in the convoys around England one at a time (make them buy DDs), who knows you might even get to raid it once in a while :-o
I will still buy the carrier and 2 transports myself. You can use the transports to threaten England or use them to gear up North in finland to hit Leningrad from 2 sides. The carrier protects your battleship and cruiser. Buy subs and destroyers to supplement your navy to keep it around.
