I agree with Simon’s conclusion that Moscow falls G6. No need for Sea lion after UK1 DOW on Japan. This game is going to end very badly for the Allies unless the Axis player is very weak. Play some tougher competition!
Converting to KJF
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@squirecam Phfftt, it’s not like you’re gonna get tech easily with oob rules- anybody who goes for tech in oob is a sucker and just wasting his Ipcs!!!
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In all frankness, I have never seen KJF work. Yes, I have seen Japan be completely hosed, with income down to the teens. Despite this, the US still has to spend money to keep Japan down and is unable to dedicate 100% of its resources to Europe.
Admittedly, I have only played with a few dozen players. Maybe there’s a good KJF out there that I have yet to see.
It is hard to script out KJF because Japan has soo many options, but here are a few random thoughts:
First, Japan has other income options that don’t depend on its navy. Crushing China early and taking Russian territory helps Germany and Japan while impeding Russia.
Second, it does not take that much US income to give the UK and Russia the edge over Germany and Italy.
Third, it takes almost the entire US income to overcome Japan’s navy.
Fourth, it is completely up to Japan when to go to war with the US.
All of these factors lead me to believe that KJF as a primary plan can’t work because it fundamentally assumes that your opponent is going to do certain things a certain way.
If you know your opponent always does a J1 attack you can certainly plan a response for that, but in terms of strategy that works against every opponent you need more tools than that in the toolbox.
Marsh
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I can honestly see where you are coming from. Personally, I tend to focus more on the Europe side of the board and closing fronts with Germany and Italy one by one until I can burn em’ out of the bunkers and back to the mainland of Europe.
That being said, I don’t really like to leave devil that is Japan to his demons like other American players tend to do. I get that as long as you protect Honolulu and Sydney from the Rising Sun then they can’t win the game on that side of the board but yah’ wanna believe me when I say it that them Japanese are gonna D-Daying the beaches of Hawaii before the American player can even say “Pearl Harbor.” I’ve seen it happen, and Japan is fully and completely capable of wiping out the American navy early or late in the game.
Hence why as the Americans, I like to intercept Japan, and sabotage them. To put simply, not make any particular military gains against Japan, but rather slow down their operations. A few examples of what this would look like could be sabotaging say a newly mobilized navy of warships in the Sea of Japan, move in with your own navy, destroy it, maybe even get a few kamikazes of the mainland Japan, and get out of there before the Japanese can bring in the rest of their navy. Another example can be limiting the size of the Sphere of Influence Japan has by securing significant islands and using them as a hub for units to post up. A typical island some players will use is Wake Island where they will build up around 6 or 9 transports in the Pacific and build a naval base on Wake Island to shuck units to Wake and then with the naval base, you have access to wherever you need to go in the pacific without Japanese blockers being a setback for you.
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@thedesertfox said in Converting to KJF:
That being said, I don’t really like to leave devil that is Japan to his demons like other American players tend to do. I get that as long as you protect Honolulu and Sydney from the Rising Sun then they can’t win the game on that side of the board but yah’ wanna believe me when I say it that them Japanese are gonna D-Daying the beaches of Hawaii before the American player can even say “Pearl Harbor.” I’ve seen it happen, and Japan is fully and completely capable of wiping out the American navy early or late in the game.
So, here’s the way it works in my experience.
For every plane that the US adds to Hawaii Japan needs to bring an extra loaded transport. That’s 10 IPCs from the US requiring 14 IPCs from Japan to counter.
Japan can’t afford that until late in the game. Before then, it is far too busy trying to secure its income base. After that, it still has to defeat the Allied Pacific fleet. It then has to have sufficient resources lined up to conquer Hawaii before the Allies can rebuild the fleet.
Marsh
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@marshmallowofwar said in Converting to KJF:
@thedesertfox said in Converting to KJF:
That being said, I don’t really like to leave devil that is Japan to his demons like other American players tend to do. I get that as long as you protect Honolulu and Sydney from the Rising Sun then they can’t win the game on that side of the board but yah’ wanna believe me when I say it that them Japanese are gonna D-Daying the beaches of Hawaii before the American player can even say “Pearl Harbor.” I’ve seen it happen, and Japan is fully and completely capable of wiping out the American navy early or late in the game.
So, here’s the way it works in my experience.
For every plane that the US adds to Hawaii Japan needs to bring an extra loaded transport. That’s 10 IPCs from the US requiring 14 IPCs from Japan to counter.
Japan can’t afford that until late in the game. Before then, it is far too busy trying to secure its income base. After that, it still has to defeat the Allied Pacific fleet. It then has to have sufficient resources lined up to conquer Hawaii before the Allies can rebuild the fleet.
Marsh
Which is why you challenge the US fleet from the start before they can match you.
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Precisely, Pearl Harbor might be the most ingenious and generic move a player playing japan can do, having left the fleet alone turn 1, sways the US to move everything onto Hawaii having been able to consolidate and then destroy it all. And if they think they can just keep it on San Francisco well then their fleet won’t be doing them a lick of good but the enemy.
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I know this might be considered revolutionary, but perhaps the US could deploy a blocker to sea zone 16…
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@marshmallowofwar said in Converting to KJF:
I know this might be considered revolutionary, but perhaps the US could deploy a blocker to sea zone 16…
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…Um…no
I dont attack J1. So there is no blocking because we are not at war. Moreover, my fleet after J1 is at caroline island. So putting a ship in sz16 doesnt block it anyway.
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What he said.
Also, even if I was coming from Japan, I wouldn’t need to bring my carriers, just my fighters, and they’d fly right over that tiny destroyer :/
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Just out of curiosity do you attack J2 or J3?
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General 6 Stars '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizerlast edited by General 6 Stars May 6, 2021, 5:36 PM May 6, 2021, 5:36 PM
There ya go desert fox. U could see squirecam answer your question at gen con.
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@gen-manstein said in Converting to KJF:
There ya go desert fox. U could see squirecam answer your question at gen con.
Hope it happens this year!
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@thedesertfox said in Converting to KJF:
Just out of curiosity do you attack J2 or J3?
No way to know. It clearly depends upon what the US did, what UK/Anzac is doing, where the russians are, is sea lion an option, etc…
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Yeah those are pretty important factors, do you have a personal preference of doing one or the other or neither?
Personally for me i do like to attack J2 but I don’t always stay true to J2 attacks when certain circumstances call for certain measures by Japan
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@thedesertfox said in Converting to KJF:
Yeah those are pretty important factors, do you have a personal preference of doing one or the other or neither?
Personally for me i do like to attack J2 but I don’t always stay true to J2 attacks when certain circumstances call for certain measures by Japan
No I dont. My goal is to win the game. So I’m not going to be married to a certain strategy. If I attack J2 then it’s because the allies response favors it and Germany is ok with it too.
If you go for India crush, then your strategy is written. You must buy transports and naval and/or airbase and you must have your fleet south, etc. That’s fine but it means the allies know your plan and purchases and know how to counter.
From Caroline Islands Japan can reach anywhere but Sumatra. So they have no idea where you are going to go because you can go almost anywhere.
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The Carolines are the magic bullet to success in the Pacific.
Have u gone to to GH invitational?
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@thedesertfox said in Converting to KJF:
The Carolines are the magic bullet to success in the Pacific.
Have u gone to to GH invitational?
No. FWIW, I think merging UK Pacific and Anzac changes the game too much.
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General 6 Stars '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizerlast edited by May 6, 2021, 7:03 PM
@squirecam
You going to the smaller gen con in June ? Carl’s going. -
MarshmallowofWar '21 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16last edited by MarshmallowofWar May 6, 2021, 8:23 PM May 6, 2021, 8:19 PM
@thedesertfox said in Converting to KJF:
What he said.
Also, even if I was coming from Japan, I wouldn’t need to bring my carriers, just my fighters, and they’d fly right over that tiny destroyer :/
Awesome, now the US is blowing up Japanese planes without shielding.
Assuming you want to bring fleet, and assuming it’s in sea zone 6, the blocker wins – you can’t move and then declare war. Two blockers are needed if Japan is staging out of the Carolines. Fortunately for the US, it can see where the Japanese fleet is when it comes to move.
Marsh
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@gen-manstein said in Converting to KJF:
@squirecam
You going to the smaller gen con in June ? Carl’s going.Yep planning on it.
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