L21 #1 trulpen (X) vs Myygames (A+45) OOB LL

[trulpen]

There’s already an instance where this will be relevant. Namely if I either attack z97 with atleast 1 des and/or z93 with 1 sub and something else.

[Myygames]

@trulpen Can you adjust losses in AAA inside a combat? Not sure how this is done, I think the editor will not work within a combat.

So, if we say we adjust the combat rolls whenever possible, would we need to roll all dices manually for a combat where this is relevant? And then edit the result?

[trulpen]

@myygames said in L21 #1 trulpen (X) vs Myygames (A+45) OOB LL:

@trulpen Can you adjust losses in AAA inside a combat? Not sure how this is done, I think the editor will not work within a combat.

No, that’s not possible. The battle has to be restarted with adjusted casualties.

So, if we say we adjust the combat rolls whenever possible, would we need to roll all dices manually for a combat where this is relevant? And then edit the result?

Yes.

In the case of hitting the french navy, I can simply exchange the sub for a des before battle. That’s pretty feasible.

With the UK navy in z97 it’s trickier since the sub defends @1.

Anyway, before we proceed, we just need to find our common ground.

[Myygames]

@trulpen said in L21 #1 trulpen (X) vs Myygames (A+45) OOB LL:

@myygames said in L21 #1 trulpen (X) vs Myygames (A+45) OOB LL:

@trulpen Can you adjust losses in AAA inside a combat? Not sure how this is done, I think the editor will not work within a combat.

No, that’s not possible. The battle has to be restarted with adjusted casualties.

So, if we say we adjust the combat rolls whenever possible, would we need to roll all dices manually for a combat where this is relevant? And then edit the result?

Yes.

In the case of hitting the french navy, I can simply exchange the sub for a des before battle. That’s pretty feasible.

With the UK navy in z97 it’s trickier since the sub defends @1.

Anyway, before we proceed, we just need to find our common ground.

OK, if you would like to try that we can do. I still fear it will be complicated and there may be errors, but lets give it a try. Maybe that lets you see the LL concept in a better light then ;-)

The rules would be: Combine everything that is possible, seperate only when needed.

• Combine sub values to fleet if no enemy air present and no DD
• Combine bombardment to amphibious assaults in round 1 (?)
  In that case roll manual dices in the forum with short description what the dices are for, for all following combat rolls.

Any additions?

[trulpen]

My suggestion is to adjust in the following instances, with the solution below:

Subs attacking without defending des
No change needed, first-strike active

Subs attacking with defending des
Exchange subs to des before battle and if relevant exchange back after battle

Subs defending without des attacking
No change needed, first-strike active

Several subs defending together with surface ships with only 1 des attacking and a lot of air
No change needed, since the subs can only hit the des

Subs defending with des attacking along with surface ships and air
Add the subs power to the fleet and roll the LL-die in the forum (enough ships to hit)

Are these suggestions ok?

I think the easiest and therefore most important one is when subs attack des. To simply exchange subs for des before the battle is easy and straight-forward.

I’m not completely opposed to keeping things simple and just follow the faulty 3A when subs defend, but it’s weird to not follow the spirit of LL.

[trulpen]

@myygames said in L21 #1 trulpen (X) vs Myygames (A+45) OOB LL:

OK, if you would like to try that we can do. I still fear it will be complicated and there may be errors, but lets give it a try. Maybe that lets you see the LL concept in a better light then ;-)

The rules would be: Combine everything that is possible, seperate only when needed.

• Combine sub values to fleet if no enemy air present and no DD
• Combine bombardment to amphibious assaults in round 1 (?)
  In that case roll manual dices in the forum with short description what the dices are for, for all following combat rolls.

Any additions?

I think it’s logical to add shore bombardment to the first battle-roll during amphis. Lets do that.

Only thing is I think subs power should combine with the fleet if there are ships that the subs can hit, even if air is present. There’s just one special case where it is not applicable and I’m sure we can figure those situations out together when or if they happen.

[trulpen]

@trulpen said in L21 #1 trulpen (X) vs Myygames (A+45) OOB LL:

Several subs defending together with surface ships with only 1 des attacking and a lot of air
No change needed, since the subs can only hit the des

Here’s an example. In z97 the sub can only hit the des, so it’s logical to not combine the power. Not several subs though, so should probably rephrase it to

Sub(s) defending together with surface ship(s) with only 1 des attacking and air

[trulpenplay]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Italians round 1

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0.0

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Italians
        Italians buy 1 destroyer; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; 

    Politics - Italians
        Italians takes Political Action: Political Action Italians To War With Chinese
            Italians succeeds on action: Political Action Italians To War With Chinese: Changing Relationship for Italians and Chinese from Neutrality to War

    Combat Move - Italians
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Italians from 95 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
        EDIT: Adding units owned by Italians to 95 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to 93 Sea Zone
        1 bomber moved from Northern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 95 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 95 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Southern Italy to 95 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 95 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 93 Sea Zone to Southern France
        1 armour moved from Tobruk to Alexandria
              Italians take Alexandria from British
        1 armour moved from Alexandria to Tobruk
        1 infantry moved from Italian Somaliland to Kenya
              Italians take Kenya from British
        1 artillery moved from Northern Italy to Southern France
        1 artillery moved from Northern Italy to Southern France
        2 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Southern France

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

[trulpen]

Here I’ve exchanged the sub to a des that attacks z93.

A better way would’ve been to delete the sub and then add the des to another sea zone, like z94. Now I noticed that it wasn’t clear whether the sub went to z93 or z97. Anyway, it’s always possible to make clarifications here in the forum.

[trulpen]

Ok, think this is ok and in mutual agreement, so I’ll proceed with battle.

[Myygames]

@trulpen said in L21 #1 trulpen (X) vs Myygames (A+45) OOB LL:

Ok, think this is ok and in mutual agreement, so I’ll proceed with battle.

yes, please do so. If anything pops up we will discuss and sove it.

[trulpenplay]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Italians round 1

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0.0

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Italians
        Italians buy 1 destroyer; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; 

    Politics - Italians
        Italians takes Political Action: Political Action Italians To War With Chinese
            Italians succeeds on action: Political Action Italians To War With Chinese: Changing Relationship for Italians and Chinese from Neutrality to War

    Combat Move - Italians
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Italians from 95 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
        EDIT: Adding units owned by Italians to 95 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to 93 Sea Zone
        1 bomber moved from Northern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 95 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 95 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Southern Italy to 95 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 95 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 93 Sea Zone to Southern France
        1 armour moved from Tobruk to Alexandria
              Italians take Alexandria from British
        1 armour moved from Alexandria to Tobruk
        1 infantry moved from Italian Somaliland to Kenya
              Italians take Kenya from British
        1 artillery moved from Northern Italy to Southern France
        1 artillery moved from Northern Italy to Southern France
        2 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Southern France

    Combat - Italians
        Battle in 93 Sea Zone
            Italians attack with 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 transport
            French defend with 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer
                Italians roll dice for 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 transport in 93 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 1,33 expected hits

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Italians regular : -0,33

Savegame

[trulpen]

Having a sub present, sink the cr or des?

[Myygames]

@trulpen said in L21 #1 trulpen (X) vs Myygames (A+45) OOB LL:

Having a sub present, sink the cr or des?

lets sink the DD.
That means you need to roll in the forum for your sub. If I dont hit R2 the rest of the battle can be in AAA, since you will hit, and calculation if my cr hits can be in AAA.

[trulpen]

@myygames said in L21 #1 trulpen (X) vs Myygames (A+45) OOB LL:

@trulpen said in L21 #1 trulpen (X) vs Myygames (A+45) OOB LL:

Having a sub present, sink the cr or des?

lets sink the DD.
That means you need to roll in the forum for your sub. If I dont hit R2 the rest of the battle can be in AAA, since you will hit, and calculation if my cr hits can be in AAA.

That’s one way to do it, but I can also restart the battle if I choose to keep the sub and exchange it back. If not it’ll just continue.

[trulpen]

I chose to sink the sub in order to get a sure hit.

[trulpenplay]

TripleA Turn Summary: Italians round 1

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0.0

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Italians
        Italians buy 1 destroyer; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; 

    Politics - Italians
        Italians takes Political Action: Political Action Italians To War With Chinese
            Italians succeeds on action: Political Action Italians To War With Chinese: Changing Relationship for Italians and Chinese from Neutrality to War

    Combat Move - Italians
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Italians from 95 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
        EDIT: Adding units owned by Italians to 95 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to 93 Sea Zone
        1 bomber moved from Northern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 95 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 95 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Southern Italy to 95 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 95 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 93 Sea Zone to Southern France
        1 armour moved from Tobruk to Alexandria
              Italians take Alexandria from British
        1 armour moved from Alexandria to Tobruk
        1 infantry moved from Italian Somaliland to Kenya
              Italians take Kenya from British
        1 artillery moved from Northern Italy to Southern France
        1 artillery moved from Northern Italy to Southern France
        2 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Southern France

    Combat - Italians
        Battle in 93 Sea Zone
            Italians attack with 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 transport
            French defend with 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer
                Italians roll dice for 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 transport in 93 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 1,33 expected hits
                French roll dice for 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer in 93 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,83 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the French and 1 destroyer owned by the Italians lost in 93 Sea Zone
                Italians roll dice for 1 cruiser, 1 fighter and 1 transport in 93 Sea Zone, round 3 : 1/0 hits, 1,00 expected hits
                French roll dice for 1 cruiser in 93 Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0,50 expected hits
                1 cruiser owned by the French lost in 93 Sea Zone
            Italians win, taking 93 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 cruiser, 1 fighter and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 12
            Casualties for Italians: 1 destroyer
            Casualties for French: 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer
        Battle in 97 Sea Zone
            Italians attack with 1 bomber, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter
            British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 submarine
                Italians roll dice for 1 bomber, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter in 97 Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/1 hits, 1,50 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 submarine in 97 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,17 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 destroyer in 97 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the British and 1 submarine owned by the British lost in 97 Sea Zone
            Italians win, taking 97 Sea Zone from British with 1 bomber, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14
            Casualties for British: 1 destroyer and 1 submarine
        Battle in Southern France
            Italians attack with 2 artilleries and 4 infantry
            French defend with 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                Italians roll dice for 2 artilleries and 4 infantry in Southern France, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 1,67 expected hits
                French roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Southern France, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,67 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the French and 1 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Southern France
                Italians roll dice for 2 artilleries and 3 infantry in Southern France, round 3 : 2/1 hits, 1,50 expected hits
                French roll dice for 1 artillery in Southern France, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 artillery owned by the French lost in Southern France
            Italians win, taking Southern France from French with 2 artilleries and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
            Casualties for Italians: 1 infantry
            Casualties for French: 1 artillery and 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Italians
        1 armour moved from Northern Italy to Slovakia Hungary
        1 armour moved from Albania to Romania
        2 infantry moved from Albania to Bulgaria
        1 fighter moved from 97 Sea Zone to Southern Italy
        1 fighter moved from 93 Sea Zone to Southern Italy
        1 bomber moved from 97 Sea Zone to Southern Italy
        1 aaGun moved from Northern Italy to Southern France
        1 aaGun moved from Northern Italy to Southern Italy
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Libya to Tobruk

    Place Units - Italians
        1 destroyer placed in 97 Sea Zone

    Turn Complete - Italians
        Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 0
            Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 72 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6
        Italians collect 13 PUs; end with 15 PUs
        Objective Italians 1 Control The Mediterranean: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 20 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

French regular : -0,33
Italians regular : 0,00
British regular : -0,50

Savegame

[Myygames]

@trulpen said in L21 #1 trulpen (X) vs Myygames (A+45) OOB LL:

My suggestion is to adjust in the following instances, with the solution below:

Subs attacking without defending des
No change needed, first-strike active

Subs attacking with defending des
Exchange subs to des before battle and if relevant exchange back after battle

Subs defending without des attacking
No change needed, first-strike active

Several subs defending together with surface ships with only 1 des attacking and a lot of air
No change needed, since the subs can only hit the des

Subs defending with des attacking along with surface ships and air
Add the subs power to the fleet and roll the LL-die in the forum (enough ships to hit)

Are these suggestions ok?

I think the easiest and therefore most important one is when subs attack des. To simply exchange subs for des before the battle is easy and straight-forward.

I’m not completely opposed to keeping things simple and just follow the faulty 3A when subs defend, but it’s weird to not follow the spirit of LL.

I have not thought about all the implications of these cases.

Lets say the folliwing spirit applies:
Whenever two rolls would be rolled by AAA that target the same group of units these rolls are combined to one roll.

That should cover what we intend, right?

[Myygames]

TripleA Turn Summary: French round 1

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0.0

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - ANZAC
        ANZAC buy 1 fighter; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - ANZAC

    Non Combat Move - ANZAC
        1 fighter moved from Queensland to Sumatra
        1 infantry moved from New South Wales to 62 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 62 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 42 Sea Zone to Java
              ANZAC take Java from Dutch
        1 destroyer moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from New South Wales to Queensland
        2 aaGuns moved from New South Wales to Queensland
        2 fighters moved from New Zealand to Queensland
        1 infantry moved from Malaya to Shan State

    Place Units - ANZAC
        1 fighter placed in New South Wales

    Turn Complete - ANZAC
        ANZAC collect 14 PUs; end with 14 PUs

    Combat Move - French
        1 infantry moved from Normandy Bordeaux to Holland Belgium
              French take Holland Belgium from Germans
        1 infantry moved from French West Africa to French Central Africa
        1 infantry moved from Morocco to Algeria
        1 infantry moved from Tunisia to Algeria
        1 infantry moved from Syria to Trans-Jordan
        1 destroyer moved from 72 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone

    Combat - French

    Non Combat Move - French

    Turn Complete - French

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

[trulpen]

@myygames said in L21 #1 trulpen (X) vs Myygames (A+45) OOB LL:

I have not thought about all the implications of these cases.

Lets say the folliwing spirit applies:
Whenever two rolls would be rolled by AAA that target the same group of units these rolls are combined to one roll.

That should cover what we intend, right?

I think so, and like previously stated, we’ll solve it if we happen to enter some grey zone.