I went when I was really young. I think I mainly visited resorts and amusement parks.
The Watchmen
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I saw the movie today. Not bad at all…I was entertained. There are obviously omissions, and some changes (particularly at the end), but I was thinking about it and there is no way they could have kept the continuity intact without doing what they did. Unless you were willing to sit through a 6 hour movie…it already clocks in at nearly 3.
SPOILERS!!!
I went last night. I too found it very entertaining. The end is very different and I’m still not sure how I feel about it.
I hated ‘old Sally.’ She barely looked old enough to be Laurie’s big sister and I REALLY didn’t like the gold digger/ trophy wife sort of thing they had going on. She wasn’t old and haggard and brass and bitter enough.
I really didn’t like how they shortened up the stuff with Rorshach and the psychiatrist. They didn’t tell how he got the mask and rushed right to how he became Rorshach as opposed to explaining at first he was Kovacs in a mask. But ditching a lot of the exposition around the Keene Act kind of required it I think. Also that chapter of the novel is my favorite part so I’m a bit biased. Haley though as Kovacs/Rorshach was excellent.
However it is certainly for the greater part a faithful adaptation and they put a lot of stuff in. It also stands on its own and does not require any particular knowledge of the comic. It moves pretty fast though so pay attention. However my girlfriend who had not read the comics had no trouble following along. She did have a sense that there was stuff left out.
Recommended for all who’ve read the comic but have some tolerance for cinematic liberties. If you haven’t read it but caught a preview and thought it looked interesting you will likely find it was worth your time.
All viewers are advised the R rating is earned with full male nudity, female nudity, R version explicit sex, bloody violence and interesting ethical questions but not really all that much swearing.
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@Imperious:
I did no such thing. I only respond to people who asked for clarifications. When somebody posts to me directly i will always return the favor. It is you that is ranting because you simply cant leave it alone. For me it would be just fine if you just left it alone and had your thread about how awesome the movie was.
If i was taking an opinion of yours and telling you it was stupid, you would very well post something back and you know it.
I see that you respond to posts directed at you and that’s good.
I am not ranting. I am also not the one that came into a thread with nothing to contribute and make ridiculous, tangential claims one after another.
I’m against Utopia. Add that to your list of things i hate.
Lastly, why is it so hard to just agree to disagree? Its not that hard to have a difference in opinion is it?
Ok, you are against…so why come in here and pretend like it should exist?
We obviously disagree. That’s not the point at all. It’s the fact that you’ve made an effort to avoid the subject of the topic yet insult a wide group of people including many posters here. Maybe not directly, but your statements obviously apply.
I mean really…why go to all this trouble? Were you raped as a comic book as a kid or something? :lol:
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I went last night. I too found it very entertaining. The end is very different and I’m still not sure how I feel about it.
I thought about it…people might find the original ending too campy. Or they may have had to add backstory or continuity that would have extended the movie even longer. Or it was “updated” to relate more to the current world (not sure how, but just maybe).
I hated ‘old Sally.’ She barely looked old enough to be Laurie’s big sister and I REALLY didn’t like the gold digger/ trophy wife sort of thing they had going on. She wasn’t old and haggard and brass and bitter enough.
Yeah, the two actresses are only a few years apart. :lol: I was looking at the actors in the film and wondered how they would pull that off. One of them was supposed to be in her 60s and the other a teenager at different parts of the movie. But I didn’t see her as a trophy wife or bitter. I thought she was more melancholy in her old age than anything in the comic.
I really didn’t like how they shortened up the stuff with Rorshach and the psychiatrist. They didn’t tell how he got the mask and rushed right to how he became Rorshach as opposed to explaining at first he was Kovacs in a mask. But ditching a lot of the exposition around the Keene Act kind of required it I think. Also that chapter of the novel is my favorite part so I’m a bit biased. Haley though as Kovacs/Rorshach was excellent.
Yeah, I agree. The gravity of Rorschach was supposed to be relayed through the psychiatrist, and it was shortened too much. I was a little more disappointed in the fact that they changed how Rorschach handled the child kidnapper/murderer. It was as if they decided to dis the story and go for the gore.
However it is certainly for the greater part a faithful adaptation and they put a lot of stuff in. It also stands on its own and does not require any particular knowledge of the comic. It moves pretty fast though so pay attention. However my girlfriend who had not read the comics had no trouble following along. She did have a sense that there was stuff left out.
I wondered what it would have to be to be “perfect.” If it was a direct adaptation, it would be far too long to be a movie. It would also be nearly the exact same thing as have reading the book. So do we take an approach to movie adaptation like we do with cover songs? Is it better to make a faithful carbon copy of the original, or is it better to put some creativity and interpretation on the original story? I can’t really say…but it does stand on its own.
Recommended for all who’ve read the comic but have some tolerance for cinematic liberties. If you haven’t read it but caught a preview and thought it looked interesting you will likely find it was worth your time.
I would also recommend the motion comic. It clocks in around 6 hours, but it’s nearly identical to the book.
Oh, and one thing I particularly liked was the vignette at the beginning showing different scenes from the book. That was pretty cool.
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SPOILERS
Regarding the ending.
The big thing with leaving out the Squid is that I don’t think I buy the idea that Jon becoming the enemy would really work. I think something Alien as opposed to something created in the US would make the US and Soviet Union change perspective enough to make peace.
I was reading an interview with the director and they’d have had an estimated 15 minutes of more stuff to get the squid in. From that perspective I can embrace the change.
But with the fey Ozzy instead of an All American Boy Ozzy and the change to it being all on Jon sort of took what I felt was the teeth of the ending away. Jon and Laurie looking at a big hole in the ground as opposed to walking through piles and piles of corpses felt like they’d wimped out at the end.
My girlfriend loved it so at must work on some level.
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SPOILERS
Regarding the ending.
The big thing with leaving out the Squid is that I don’t think I buy the idea that Jon becoming the enemy would really work. I think something Alien as opposed to something created in the US would make the US and Soviet Union change perspective enough to make peace.
I was reading an interview with the director and they’d have had an estimated 15 minutes of more stuff to get the squid in. From that perspective I can embrace the change.
But with the fey Ozzy instead of an All American Boy Ozzy and the change to it being all on Jon sort of took what I felt was the teeth of the ending away. Jon and Laurie looking at a big hole in the ground as opposed to walking through piles and piles of corpses felt like they’d wimped out at the end.
My girlfriend loved it so at must work on some level.
I didn’t buy the new ending at first either - why would the USSR and US ally over a former American god? But I realized that they made deliberate efforts to portray Jon as a god, i.e. not human, in the movie so that possibly people were just afraid of him. And Ozy hit cities worldwide, so that the sudden disappearance and subsequent supposed attack could create a mutual fear of Jon.
The other reason why I think it works: there are quite a few views of the Twin Towers in the movie, and I think it is symbolic. Not just once, multiple times including the “crater” scene with Jon and Laurie returning from Mars. In that light, when in reality we lost a few thousand people and two buildings and it really shocked the country, the world, and enticed a new alliance. When you have something vaporize cities and people around the world…well, I could totally believe an end to hostilities over that.
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Were you raped as a comic book as a kid or something?
Yes jermo i was rapped by Batman and his boy wonder. And yes i was wearing my official Comic book costume while he was “doing it”
But lets just make it our little secret because it was a really embarrassing moment.
are you satisfied you uncovered the truth?
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Ya guys, the book’s a masterpiece and the movie’s just ok. An HBO miniseries would have probably been the best place to set this story… you could have made 4 1-hour long episodes and just churned out exactly what the novel put down on paper.
I find that most people who read the book back when it was released enjoy the book a lot more, and they were the ones seeing it as soon as they could. Younger readers and people who didn’t read Watchmen until they were well into comics already tend to like it less because so many other comics have taken from this story over the years. I ask them, “So did you like it? Wait don’t tell me, it was a lot like other stuff you’ve read.” Inevitably, that’s the case. Considering everything, it’s about as good as this movie could have been, while staying faithful, without alienating everyone but the hardcore fan. I still enjoyed it, and aside from the new Silk Spectre I thought the movie was acted and cast really well.
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@Imperious:
Were you raped as a comic book as a kid or something?
Yes jermo i was rapped by Batman and his boy wonder. And yes i was wearing my official Comic book costume while he was “doing it”
But lets just make it our little secret because it was a really embarrassing moment.
are you satisfied you uncovered the truth?
Did you tell them to keep it in the mylar sheath? :evil:
Ya guys, the book’s a masterpiece and the movie’s just ok. An HBO miniseries would have probably been the best place to set this story… you could have made 4 1-hour long episodes and just churned out exactly what the novel put down on paper.
I find that most people who read the book back when it was released enjoy the book a lot more, and they were the ones seeing it as soon as they could. Younger readers and people who didn’t read Watchmen until they were well into comics already tend to like it less because so many other comics have taken from this story over the years. I ask them, “So did you like it? Wait don’t tell me, it was a lot like other stuff you’ve read.” Inevitably, that’s the case. Considering everything, it’s about as good as this movie could have been, while staying faithful, without alienating everyone but the hardcore fan. I still enjoyed it, and aside from the new Silk Spectre I thought the movie was acted and cast really well.
I’ve already heard from a few different people that it ripped off “The Incredibles.” Definitely got a chuckle out of me.
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I have similar experience with folks ‘not seeing what the big deal about Watchmen’ or Dark Night Returns. They got to Watchmen after reading stuff that wouldn’t be without it. No sense of perspective.
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Did you tell them to keep it in the mylar sheath? evil
no. they told me they were catholic said “we donn do dat”
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ok, do i pretty much tuned out somewhere on the first page of discussion, crack about Star Wars explosions in space (made for the movie, not argued to be accurate), SW showing possible evolution (Long, long time ago…) and the Lord of the Rings (not a comic and created way back and in England no less, come on!)
anyhow, the argument about comics made into movies, reminded me of an interview I read with Alan Moore (watchmen), about his agreement with IL… how he doesn’t like comic book movies and isn’t going to see Watchmen.
http://www.totalfilm.com/features/exclusive-why-alan-moore-hates-comic-book-movies
i’ll leave the discussion to you guys…
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Troll somewhere else,
ok, do i pretty much tuned out somewhere on the first page of discussion… i’ll leave the discussion to you guys…
LuckyDay, we already have one under this bridge.
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ok, do i pretty much tuned out somewhere on the first page of discussion, crack about Star Wars explosions in space (made for the movie, not argued to be accurate), SW showing possible evolution (Long, long time ago…) and the Lord of the Rings (not a comic and created way back and in England no less, come on!)
That was in response to IL stating he doesn’t “do” comic book movies because they aren’t real/believable, then said Star Wars & Trek were more realistic. So I listed a few things that aren’t realistic about those off the top of my head. It wasn’t a knock on Star Wars so much as hypocrisy.
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That was in response to IL stating he doesn’t “do” comic book movies because they aren’t real/believable
I didn’t just say this Jermo, I just doubt their value to convey anything but low level entertainment for mostly simple people ( no not you Jermo) and they are just a vehicle to market all sorts of specific kinds of commercial interests which to me at least encourages poor decisions making in personal life. It may seem very arbitrary to make this statement, but i have seen the pattern too many times in others and must tie these aspects together in some way.
Its not that they are not realistic, its actually that the story just seems really childish because its using the visual effects to direct the story rather than the story directing the action. I would rather see more serious movies, but by the same token the Star Wars story is quite involved and just uses the backdrop of the future to tell its story.
Bladerunner was an outstanding movie and concept, while comic book movies really just suck and yes both are unrealistic, but the first movie has an incredible story and didn’t rely on action to drive it. In Transformers all i can think is Chevrolet paying the producers a huge sum to get its cars shown and used to become robots so young dumb types will go out and by a Camaro or some other POS. The whole movie was a product placement excuse to sell various trash to poor people. It had absolutely no story and the worst acting possible. But its the same thing we get in these movies all the time absolutely no high level art but digestible to perhaps only the Dorito and Slurpee crowd. I think these movies are dumbing people down.
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@Imperious:
I didn’t just say this Jermo, I just doubt their value to convey anything but low level entertainment for mostly simple people ( no not you Jermo) and they are just a vehicle to market all sorts of specific kinds of commercial interests which to me at least encourages poor decisions making in personal life. It may seem very arbitrary to make this statement, but i have seen the pattern too many times in others and must tie these aspects together in some way.
Making a movie is a commercial interest in itself. I don’t see how making things people will buy is necessarily a bad or immoral thing. And Star Wars has to be the worst offender at this - 7 movies I can think of (I - VI, Clone Wars - I think there was an Ewok movie too), TV specials (A Star Wars Christmas???), action figures, toys, Lego crossover, video games (hordes of them), comic books, books & expanded universe, etc.
Its not that they are not realistic, its actually that the story just seems really childish because its using the visual effects to direct the story rather than the story directing the action. I would rather see more serious movies, but by the same token the Star Wars story is quite involved and just uses the backdrop of the future to tell its story.
Crap has existed well before CGI or comics. And Star Wars is VERY effects heavy. In fact, Industrial Lights & Magic was created specifically for the first movie.
Also, if you think it’s a projection of the future, you need rewatch the first minute of A New Hope and face the fact that once we reach space it will be nothing like Star Wars.
Bladerunner was an outstanding movie and concept, while comic book movies really just suck and yes both are unrealistic, but the first movie has an incredible story and didn’t rely on action to drive it. In Transformers all i can think is Chevrolet paying the producers a huge sum to get its cars shown and used to become robots so young dumb types will go out and by a Camaro or some other POS. The whole movie was a product placement excuse to sell various trash to poor people. It had absolutely no story and the worst acting possible. But its the same thing we get in these movies all the time absolutely no high level art but digestible to perhaps only the Dorito and Slurpee crowd. I think these movies are dumbing people down.
Bladerunner was scifi book before a movie…easily could have been a comic book (Sean Young is hot as hell in that movie) I haven’t seen Transformers even though it was a huge part of my childhood.
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anyhow, the argument about comics made into movies, reminded me of an interview I read with Alan Moore (watchmen), about his agreement with IL… how he doesn’t like comic book movies and isn’t going to see Watchmen.
http://www.totalfilm.com/features/exclusive-why-alan-moore-hates-comic-book-movies
i’ll leave the discussion to you guys…
I read that and it’s really myopic.
- “Comics don’t work as films.” What he really goes on to say is that so many stupid people are involved with making the movie and they destroy it. Which has nothing to do with comics at all, and can be attributed to all movies.
- “Hollywood is full of idiots.” He repeats number one and gives one example. Wow.
- “Comics are better than blockbusters.” Well duh, and book adaption is never as good as the original. It’s just what’s lost in translation. Doesn’t mean the movie can’t be entertaining or good anyway. He also goes on to repeat “it’s all about money” which was already stated.
- “Films are a waste of money.” He says they spent 100 million on a crappy movie he hasn’t and won’t see. That money could have been spent on needy people. Well, the same could be said for comic books, tv, anything that doesn’t produce value or is entertaining. There’s a slight point to all that, but let’s be realistic. A production company isn’t a charitable group…it makes movies. Expecting it to dump investments in a poor nation is an asinine thought.
- “Movie contracts are ridiculous.” He gave an example of Sean Connery wanting to make changes to a previous movie and asking for lots of money, so he repeated two points he already repeated before.
- “The modern American comics industry is ideologically flawed.” This part is absurd. He compares comics to American foreign policy, the Iraq War, terrorist bombings, etc. Here, take a look at these gems:
“That’s why I believe guns are so popular in America – because you can ambush people, you can shoot them in the back, you can behave in a very cowardly fashion. Friendly fire, or as we call it everywhere else in the world, American fire.”
“There’s that beautiful bit of dialogue from the cockpit video when they say, “You’ve just bombed a load of Brits.” Their pilots say, “Woah, dude, we’re going to jail.” This is the Iraq war, not Bill And Ted’s Excellent Adventure!”
“And as Londoners, when we had that little bit of bother on the 7th July 2005 – after America had two big buildings blown up… Terrible shame, but we had a lot more than two buildings blown up during the ‘40s when America was providing most of the munitions to Hitler…”
The best part is at the end of the article: “Alan Moore’s latest project, Lost Girls, is on sale now.” So this is all an advertisement for his new work. Where’s that disdain of money now? “Comic book movies suck…here are my two reasons I don’t like them…which I will repeat over and over and never admit it applies to all movies…oh, and buy my stuff!” Funny.
Ultimately though…I don’t care what he thinks. He’s good at writing a story, and I enjoy it, but I don’t need him, or IL, to tell me that comic book movies are dumb.
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Making a movie is a commercial interest in itself. I don’t see how making things people will buy is necessarily a bad or immoral thing. And Star Wars has to be the worst offender at this - 7 movies I can think of (I - VI, Clone Wars - I think there was an Ewok movie too), TV specials (A Star Wars Christmas???), action figures, toys, Lego crossover, video games (hordes of them), comic books, books & expanded universe, etc.
It is but the level its flogged at every level in the comic book movie vs. say a movie like “let their be blood” is astoundingly different. The former uses every cheesy action plot device and trick to provide the same ‘good guy/ bad guy’ thing to the point where its message is just very simple. In blood you get much greater developed characters and stories that are believable and capable of delivering more depth.
In Their will be Blood i didn’t see any Taco Bell “blood” meals with that disgusting burrito thing, now the Coke and Pepsi tie in etc… I agree with Star Wars sentiment and mostly i can concur that its rather childish as well, but the first 2 movies didn’t have the crap to a large extent and those are the only ones that were good.
For Star Trek the only one i liked was the first one and Khan. You could not pay me to see the others. IN both cases I was a kid when these movies came out, so i have an excuse to like them.
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@Imperious:
It is but the level its flogged at every level in the comic book movie vs. say a movie like “let their be blood” is astoundingly different. The former uses every cheesy action plot device and trick to provide the same ‘good guy/ bad guy’ thing to the point where its message is just very simple. In blood you get much greater developed characters and stories that are believable and capable of delivering more depth.
In Their will be Blood i didn’t see any Taco Bell “blood” meals with that disgusting burrito thing, now the Coke and Pepsi tie in etc… I agree with Star Wars sentiment and mostly i can concur that its rather childish as well, but the first 2 movies didn’t have the crap to a large extent and those are the only ones that were good.
For Star Trek the only one i liked was the first one and Khan. You could not pay me to see the others. IN both cases I was a kid when these movies came out, so i have an excuse to like them.
There Will Be Blood was subtle product placement for Dairy Queen "Milk"shakes.
Or that song that brings all the boys to the yard.
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IL,
A great number of people could argue that activly participating on a forum for a board game would be childish yet here we are.
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A great number of people could argue that activly participating on a forum for a board game would be childish yet here we are.
Thats why i design them and not really play them, because i find it more interesting to help people who:
- cant make nifty maps and artwork but have a need for it
- help solve some of the problems of realism in these games and find new solutions
- Playing a game can be a mental struggle which does not ruin a good mind. Thats why i also play Chess and Poker… but i can never find anything with comics stimulating whatsoever.
I also saw this crappy movie and aside from alternating scenes of people getting their arms cut, face smashed in, the most vulgar violence and gratuitous sex at every 5 minutes period i rate the movie as the greatest artwork ever created in film and it will undoubtedly lead to the most positive cultural development in the last 100 years.
I think it will lead to world peas.
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