Can the Allies win in 1942?

[Blaarg]

In my experience, Axis are the ones with a disadvantage.

[wally]

I haven’t played a 42 match yet, because 41 was simply too much fun!

Just looking at the maps though, it does look like the Allies are at a serious disadvantage. I sure don’t see Russia lasting very long, and the British presence in Asia is laughable because it can be wiped out on the first turn.

41 seems very well balanced though, so folks who thin 42 is unbalanced could always stick with that.

[fanofbond]

in the middle of a game now and it isn’t looking very good for allies currently.  AT this point the ussr is about out of the game, but with some lucky roles it can stay in for a while longer(maybe a turn).  the us though has pounding at japan’s doorstep (will take a few turns to build forces for invasion)  overall though i believe it depends on how ussr plays and how long it lives.

[tin_snips]

you would think they’d have added in some more units for the Allies, considering they were the ones who won the real war  :-D

[Jennifer]

Actually, it really looks bad for the allies at the start of 1942, but in reality, it seems like the axis are paper thin and the allies can just roll right through and crush all resistance.

Take the Pacific.  America got some uber power boosts while Japan actually got nerfed a little with the loss of a carrier and fighters. (Okay, you get a BB, but who here is gunna tell me they’d trade a carrier and 2 fighters for 1 BB?)

Europe looks really bad for Russia, but you have to look closer at the bomber and fighter (a huge boost for Russia over 1941!) and the increased armor in Russia.  Much easier for Russia to push back the Germans a bit and get some breathing room in 1942!

China nearly doubles in manpower! (to be a true doubling, they’d need an extra fighter, but even the game designers had to resist that!)  How that can be justified no one can tell, seriously, by 1942 in games startin in 1941, China does not even exist, let alone have double the manpower and all their territories!

England’s got a massively larger fleet presence in the Indian Ocean, but they have a lot less land.  Dunno if that’s enough to justify the problems the Axis have though.

Given the few games of '42 I’ve played, I’d wager that each axis power needs 20 IPC in bid units at the start of the game to even the score.  perhaps 24 for Germany, 24 for Japan, 16 for Italy instead of 20 each. (That might be over kill, but you get the gist.)

[tin_snips]

really? see, i think i need more people in my play group. i beat them all the time  8-)

[Jennifer]

@tin_snips:

really? see, i think i need more people in my play group. i beat them all the time  8-)

I play on the forums. :)

[tin_snips]

i guess i’ll have to get around to playing a forum game sometime haha

[Jennifer]

@tin_snips:

i guess i’ll have to get around to playing a forum game sometime haha

I was hesitant to at first as well.  But honestly, I learned so much about Axis and Allies when I started playing on the forums it wasn’t even funny.

For instance, the Russian “Wall” in Yakut SSR.  Dead zoning Karelia in Round 1 in hopes of killing a massive stack of German armor.  The Industrial Complex in S. Africa.  The Kwangbang maneuver (Russia attacks Manchuria, England attacks Kwangtung, America cleans up FIC and thus puts serious lag time into Japan which has to first recover and then move forward.)

Those refer to classic, obviously, but the same applies to Revised and Anniversary.  The knowledge base of online players is far larger because there are many more players, thus, you see new ideas and concepts you didn’t think of and your group never contemplated.

From there, you can bring the ideas back to your group and make the game more fun for everyone involved.  At least, that’s how it worked for me.

[tin_snips]

sounds good. i already know about the s. africa IC though. had a friends father who would do it EVERY GAME as UK. very annoying  :lol:

[mpc220]

I think the Axis is pretty well hosed in 1942.  So long as the USA goes Pacific only, it can ALWAYS hold Hawaii, which means that barring freak circumstances Germany has to take Moscow (I assume we’re using a 13 VC victory condition here).  That’s not going to be easy… on G1, you HAVE to build to the Baltic fleet if you want to have any chance of keeping it, and you need to buy at least a carrier.  So now you’re down from $37 to $23.  France is underdefended, so you’re going to need to divert some of your G1 Berlin troops there.  You’re going to need to send some stuff down to Africa.  By the time you’re done, you’re way, way behind in keeping parity with Russia on the Eastern Front.  It’s hard to come back, too, because you’re limited to building ten units.  You can build a factory in France or Poland, but you want to do it early, and on G1 you just don’t have a ton of cash.

I only play offline, so I don’t know if that experience jibes with what you guys are seeing.  But on G1 you have a country that is way, way overextended.  Unlike with the Allies, if you screw up even a little you can blow your chances of winning.

I’m not sure if the game needs a “fix” yet, but two ideas I’d like to try:

• Germany starts with a bomber in France.  This would make it a lot easier to sink Allied shipping early on and take some of the heat off of Western Europe.

• The Skagerrak acts like the Suez Canal, and is impassible to ships unless you control both Northwest Europe and Norway at the beginning of your turn.  (This isn’t my idea; someone over at another forum came up with it.)  It could really help breathe a lot of life into Germany’s Baltic fleet, since it’s generally only going to be hit with planes.

[general jason]

@mpc220:

• The Skagerrak acts like the Suez Canal, and is impassible to ships unless you control both Northwest Europe and Norway at the beginning of your turn.  (This isn’t my idea; someone over at another forum came up with it.)  It could really help breathe a lot of life into Germany’s Baltic fleet, since it’s generally only going to be hit with planes.

never

never

[cymerdown]

@mpc220:

on G1, you HAVE to build to the Baltic fleet if you want to have any chance of keeping it, and you need to buy at least a carrier.

Who says you need to keep it?

[Jennifer]

@cymerdown:

@mpc220:

on G1, you HAVE to build to the Baltic fleet if you want to have any chance of keeping it, and you need to buy at least a carrier.

Who says you need to keep it?

I don’t.

I think the Axis can win, but you’ll have to throw out your notions of what is good strategy and what is bad.

Germany has to go balls to the walls against Russia smacking them as hard as possible each and every round, even if it costs tanks.  The only chance you have is for the Allies to send fighters in to defend Moscow (costing the Allies 5 IPC a round) and/or to keep Russia 100% defensive for most of the game.  Just so you can buy time for Japan to bring up the rear (5 rounds, remember!)

[mpc220]

@cymerdown:

Who says you need to keep it?

Maybe you don’t.  I’ve played the scenario a few times and I think it very well might be worth trying to save; you can delay British landings for a turn or two and that might be worth the 14 bucks you blow on it.  But I’m not sure.

[Blaarg]

@mpc220:

@cymerdown:

Who says you need to keep it?

Maybe you don’t.  I’ve played the scenario a few times and I think it very well might be worth trying to save; you can delay British landings for a turn or two and that might be worth the 14 bucks you blow on it.  But I’m not sure.

Usually you get to blow the fleet on a suicide strafe with your aircraft, and it takes it’s money’s worth before dying.  That is, assuming the dice gods don’t take a dump on you.

[Lucifer]

I think the allies can win in 42, and certainly w/o NOs. But most of us play with NOs, the game is more fun with more money.

I believe that axis also are favored in the 42 scenario with NOs. I don’t know enough to say for sure that allies need a bid though, I may even be wrong on this, could also be that allies are favored.

What is pretty clear is that there is no such thing as a balanced A&A, once you started playing enough games to know what the most efficient strats are, for winning the game that is.

AAR was not very unbalanced, and we compare Revised with Classic. We should then compare AA50 with AAR.

I think it’s possible that AA50 is not more unbalanced than AAR, which is acceptable. With bid levels 8-9 ipc in AAR, I think we will see this in AA50 pretty soon. In AAR the usual bids are 2 units to Germany in Africa and 1 ipc to Japan.

I didn’t play enough 42 games yet, but I would be suprised if axis can win w/o bid and w/o NOs.

[spectre_04]

I would say that the 42 game is more evenly matched than the 41 game.  Its best to follow certain goals as the allies if you are going to win.  Just last weekend I defeated my best opponent (who usually beats me 3 to 1) in three turns as the allies by invading Germany with only two transports {2 tanks 2 inf}, 5 fighters, 1 heavy bomber, and shore bombardment. 
      I caught him off gaurd in that he didn’t leave enough hitler youth behind to defend the Reich.  Granted he did have Moscow virtually surrounded with the exception of the caucusses.  Its hard to send adequate forces to Russia and defend your home turf, even if you get mech inf.  That is why as allies I always go for Italy/germany first.  For one thing Japan cannot do much to threaten you for a few turns and by then you can really put the heat on the hun.  I recommend building fighters and carriers as britain (because you can always fly the fighter squadrons to defend russia) and flying all us bombers to the U.K on the first turn and go after the heavy bombers tech as USA.  Build a bomber and eastern fleet units every turn as the USA this will be good for hitting the italian fleet as well as the axis factories.

I absolutely think that the allies can win in 42!! absolutely.

[captainjack]

I’ve only played one game of '42 and I’m gearing up for my second.  With NO on, do the axis OR the allies need a bid to balance the game?
Thanks.

[Bigtiti]

@Cmdr:

I mean seriously, do they even have a chance?

We’re two rounds in and China’s obliterated, England’s stuck on their little island and anything bigger than a paper boat they put in the water is sunk IMMEDIATELY and Russia’s standing on her own while Japan and Germany come marching at her.

(Oh yea, and Italy’s so powerful they have a Complex in Egypt and are laughing and having a good old time with it….)

Of course, it’s only game one of 1942 for us, but I’m seriously wondering if maybe we need to buff the British a bit?

haha, 2 rounds?
i can’t get those results if i even wanted to as allies!
china, is true: you should retreat back, and make a hold at chingai
British are strong, they keep most of their ships alive
Japan superpower? with 1 transport first round?
even india IC is good idea, atleast with KJF
Germans: the russians are in the offensive first rounds. and 8 inf a day, keeps the jerrys away :-D