League General Discussion Thread

[ksmckay]

@oysteilo said in League General Discussion Thread:

right now we have 3 levels of playoffs so what harm does it do to have (potentially) one OOB bracket?

None. I think we have to do something like that with P2V gaining popularity and being so different from BM3 (and OOB) of course.

The trick is who gets to play in it? The league rankings are shared across all the games. So you could potentially have the top 8 signing up for all three which of course makes no sense. Or you could have it so you only sign up for 1. But I think thats a little off too because I think there is room to play multiple versions. I would like to play some P2V next year but I continue to enjoy BM3.

Separate rankings for everything would be a bit tedious but maybe? I don’t want to see different forums for different versions. That just isolates people and makes the community feel smaller.

But Id certainly be in favor of multiple tourneys. Perhaps there is the littlest bit of presige associated with league champion and that would be dulled or debated, but I think the best thing about the tournament is that it pits the best against the best in a best-of-one format.

[majikforce]

@axis-dominion To be fair I did not specifically call anyone out for crying. Maybe a better choice of words is to complain even when you know the rules going into it. Is OOB so bad that you could never possibly get a win? I doubt that very much. That being said I am for a change in 2021 to be like you said take the predominantly played version as the playoff default. Now this talk of you resigning your game if “insisting to play OOB” I think is bad form. You knew the rules signing up for 2020 and as stated the default is OOB so the potential is there for you to have to play OOB possibly. To resign in the middle of a playoff robs someone else of the chance to play in tier 1. You should bow out now if that is your intention.

[oysteilo]

I think:

• 1 combined ranking for all games, OOB, BM, PtV etc etc
• You sign up for playoff in OOB or BM or PtV or all. Your ranking above decides you seed in the bracket, simple as that
• Everyone gets to play their prefered game(s) in the playoffs

[OwenToo]

Brilliant! That could fly!

[dawgoneit]

@oysteilo i still think p2v shouldn’t be involved it hasn’t been around that long. i can agree that BM3 should be the default. p2v should be in a league by it self.

[OwenToo]

@dawgoneit Don’t need a default for playoffs… if you don’t want to be in the PTV tourney, don’t sign up for it

[oysteilo]

@OwenToo said in League General Discussion Thread:

Brilliant! That could fly!

you came up with it, you are brilliant!

[AndrewAAGamer]

I agree with a lot what both sides are saying in this discussion. A Player should not be forced into playing a version they do not want to play. That does not make anyone happy. At the same time we want to welcome new Players and OOB is the standard outside of this website.

For 2021 my suggestion would be to have separate Leagues or at least separate Playoffs. If you qualify for the Playoffs (8+ games) you can play in as many of the Playoff versions as you like. That way everyone gets to play the version they want to play, and no one has to play in a version they do not want to play in. If a version doesn’t get enough interest for a Playoff, then that Playoff version is canceled.

While P2V is a completely different game if there was enough call for a playoffs I see no reason to not include it unless there is a conviction that any Playoffs should only include Global 1940 (OOB or BM3) as P2V is frankly a completely different game; like Big World. In fact, you could have a Big World playoff too if enough people were interested in it. And how about AA50!!! That is one game I would play in League. But I digress.

As a new League Player here is my recent experience. I was playing in my Face to Face gaming group and we ONLY played OOB; well AA50 too, and D-Day and Guadalcanal. You get the picture. We had heard of this Balanced Mod thing but none of us played it. Due to COVID-19 we had to stop playing and I wanted to continue gaming and while I had for years used this site for information sources I had never played here. So, after doing some investigation, I was very pleased to read the League Rules and saw that Global G40 2nd Edition (aka OOB) was the default and based on that I joined and began playing.

I have had no problem finding OOB competitors so far. I can find people to play with at the E, 1 and 2 levels all the time. However, it came to my attention that a majority of the very top M players seem to not only play BM3 exclusively but avoided OOB like the plague, so I have not played against them. While I was disappointed in that it is fine if they feel that way and do not want to play OOB. But, to say if you want to play in the playoffs in the A Tier that you must play BM3 because they do is not fair. Just as it is unfair for them to have to play OOB when they do not want to and have not played a single game all year of it. Thus, why I suggest separate Playoffs.

We are going to lose newcomers if they are forced to play BM3. For those of you who are adamant about how great BM3 is and how OOB sucks, I know just as many people who feel the same about OOB being the best game and BM3 sucks; actually more. I would not have joined the League if BM3 was my only choice. At the same time, I do not want people who only play BM3 to not play in a Playoffs or be forced to play OOB if they do not ant to. Again at least two Playoffs for 2021 would be my recommendation.

[ksmckay]

@oysteilo said in League General Discussion Thread:

I think:

• 1 combined ranking for all games, OOB, BM, PtV etc etc
• You sign up for playoff in OOB or BM or PtV or all. Your ranking above decides you seed in the bracket, simple as that
• Everyone gets to play their prefered game(s) in the playoffs

So you would be ok with the top 8 signing up for all three? So now we have three playoff tournaments but only 8 people get to participate?

We already have an 8 game minimum for top playoff bracket. Maybe we could expand requirement to 8 total games, and then minimum 3 to sign up for the playoff.

So if you played 3 games P2V, 3 games OOB, and 3 games BM3 you could play in all three or if you played half p2V have BM3 you could sign up for those but not the OOB. So then to participate in the tourney you actually have had to play the given game in the league that year a few times.

[trulpen]

@AndrewAAGamer said in League General Discussion Thread:

For 2021 my suggestion would be to have separate Leagues or at least separate Playoffs. If you qualify for the Playoffs (8+ games) you can play in as many of the Playoff versions as you like. That way everyone gets to play the version they want to play, and no one has to play in a version they do not want to play in. If a version doesn’t get enough interest for a Playoff, then that Playoff version is canceled.

Fully agree with this. There is likely no need for separate leagues, unless there’s a wish to have a clear separation of rankings between the versions, but separate playoffs is very rational. And like previously stated we already have several playoffs already, so this should not be much of an administrative issue.

[mainah]

I enter my thoughts into this discussion hesitantly. I feel that as a newcomer, I do not have the same investment in time and emotion as those, especially in the top tier that are in the play offs, have. So I am not trying to say one way or another what the answer should be.

The only comment I have is about trying to get new players in the league, and as I am one of those, maybe my 2 cents in that subject might matter. And in that regard, I feel as though all three games should be in the same league, regardless on how the play-off issue is decided. If there are separate leagues, then the community and the number of available opponents will shrink. And the intimidation factor for a new player to join what might be perceived as an “elite” league due to experienced players playing that particular version more would keep people away. That is something the points per game based on the tiers of the respective players handles very well, while still allowing exposure to multiple versions of the game, a varied group of players with varying skill levels, none of whom I currently feel I can’t play against. Which keeps things interesting for those in, and might snag more of those just starting (I know it did for me).

I would probably have not tried either BM or PTV if they weren’t in this league - at least not this year. And since joining the league, merely 3 months ago, I have bounced between all three.

Again - I am not trying to add anything to the discussion of the play-offs, but just the direction of the league in general. I don’t think making separate leagues for each version will do the community any favors.

[666]

Well said…and I for one, agree

@mainah said in League General Discussion Thread:

I enter my thoughts into this discussion hesitantly. I feel that as a newcomer, I do not have the same investment in time and emotion as those, especially in the top tier that are in the play offs, have. So I am not trying to say one way or another what the answer should be.

The only comment I have is about trying to get new players in the league, and as I am one of those, maybe my 2 cents in that subject might matter. And in that regard, I feel as though all three games should be in the same league, regardless on how the play-off issue is decided. If there are separate leagues, then the community and the number of available opponents will shrink. And the intimidation factor for a new player to join what might be perceived as an “elite” league due to experienced players playing that particular version more would keep people away. That is something the points per game based on the tiers of the respective players handles very well, while still allowing exposure to multiple versions of the game, a varied group of players with varying skill levels, none of whom I currently feel I can’t play against. Which keeps things interesting for those in, and might snag more of those just starting (I know it did for me).

I would probably have not tried either BM or PTV if they weren’t in this league - at least not this year. And since joining the league, merely 3 months ago, I have bounced between all three.

Again - I am not trying to add anything to the discussion of the play-offs, but just the direction of the league in general. I don’t think making separate leagues for each version will do the community any favors.

[AndrewAAGamer]

@ksmckay said in League General Discussion Thread:

We already have an 8 game minimum for top playoff bracket. Maybe we could expand requirement to 8 total games, and then minimum 3 to sign up for the playoff.
So if you played 3 games P2V, 3 games OOB, and 3 games BM3 you could play in all three or if you played half p2V have BM3 you could sign up for those but not the OOB. So then to participate in the tourney you actually have had to play the given game in the league that year a few times.

I think one League but multiple Playoffs would work. I think having a minimum number of games of a certain version to play in that Playoff also makes sense. I would agree with @ksmckay that three games of a particular version seems reasonable.

If a Player played at least 9 games; 3 of each version, then sure let them participate in all three Playoffs, or more if we do AA50. :)

If we have more than 8 people wanting to play a certain version we could just add a second tier like we do now. Certainly we may end up with 1 Playoff of OOB and 1 Playoff of PtV and 2 Playoffs of BM3 and one final Playoff of AA50. If that is too much work than I would volunteer to help keep track of one or more Playoffs to help expand the playing options of the Club.

The only downside I see is the one already expressed by @ksmckay below…

@ksmckay said in League General Discussion Thread:

But Id certainly be in favor of multiple tourneys. Perhaps there is the littlest bit of presige associated with league champion and that would be dulled or debated, but I think the best thing about the tournament is that it pits the best against the best in a best-of-one format.

[gamerman01]

Good discussion, I enjoy all posts.

We can do a separate ranking for P2V in 2021, no problem - probably should. Maybe we should do a separate ranking for OOB as well for 2021. Yes we do have a player who strongly prefers OOB in the top 8 and yes it puts others at a huge disadvantage who haven’t played it in years.

Up til now, it has made a lot of sense to have a default version in the league rules that also applies to the playoffs. The biggest reason being that one league (one standings) together keeps more players together and maximizes number of completed games. Makes sense to have a default version for if players can’t agree what version of the game they want to play, and everyone should know what that default version is, all year.

But now we have a bigger disparity in versions, and more versions, than usual. Pretty big differences between OOB, BM, and PTV. And others could come along, of course.

ksmckay is correct in saying the league belongs to the players - the moderator’s role is to play judge and facilitate the community’s wishes.

I am a firm believer in following the rules that have been established and understood and agreed upon, therefore the 2020 playoffs are absolutely governed by the league rules posted 1 year ago, no debate.

2021 league rules are on the table. I would propose that there are 3 different standings kept for 2021, being OOB, BM, and P2V and the league rules will be changed to reflect this. Any other version that comes up during the year or is played outside of these 3 versions (with BM and P2V including different iterations under those umbrellas) would need to be addressed too. Do they not count in the league - so basically not allowed? For example, you couldn’t really play AA50 or Spring 1942 or A&A&Zombies in 2020 and expect to have it counted in the league here.

The preceding paragraph is for you all to agree, disagree, discuss, or amend.

[gamerman01]

Note: I just saw there were a lot of posts in the past couple hours that I hadn’t seen yet. I will read them now, but the preceding post I just made was without reading all those posts

[gamerman01]

OK, great! Great discussion, I mean.

Not a bad idea to have separate playoff brackets for separate versions - not a bad idea at all - but I think I have a better one!

It’s no trouble for me to maintain 3 different standings sheets for 2021. Therefore, I’m confident the majority will agree that for 2021 we will still have 1 league together (shared results thread, shared discussion thread, shared everything) but with a separate standings and PPG calculation by version, which is actually what I was saying before I read the last 2-3 hours worth of posts. There will be a league champion playoff for each of the 3 different versions.

Again, this is a proposal and you all can shoot it down (with radar enabled AA guns), but surely this will be the most popular idea, no?? :)

[gamerman01]

Oh, and as far as the current brackets, I’m sorry but we can’t implement the different versions/different playoffs idea right now for the 2020 playoffs because the rules have been set all year.

[trulpen]

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

OK, great! Great discussion, I mean.

Not a bad idea to have separate playoff brackets for separate versions - not a bad idea at all - but I think I have a better one!

It’s no trouble for me to maintain 3 different standings sheets for 2021. Therefore, I’m confident the majority will agree that for 2021 we will still have 1 league together (shared results thread, shared discussion thread, shared everything) but with a separate standings and PPG calculation by version, which is actually what I was saying before I read the last 2-3 hours worth of posts. There will be a league champion playoff for each of the 3 different versions.

Again, this is a proposal and you all can shoot it down, but surely this will be the most popular idea, no?? :)

If you, ye great keymaster, can handle it, it sounds like heaven!

[trulpen]

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

Oh, and as far as the current brackets, I’m sorry but we can’t implement the different versions/different playoffs idea right now for the 2020 playoffs because the rules have been set all year.

It’s rational and ok. I’m sure we’ll survive this as well.

[AndrewAAGamer]

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

separate standings and PPG calculation by version

LOVE IT!!! THANK YOU @gamerman01 for doing the extra work to make this happen!

Two questions. 1) Would the overall minimum to qualify for any Playoff still be 8+ games and 2) would there be a minimum number of games needed in any one version to qualify for that Playoff? Such as 3?