#1 trulpen (X) vs captainwalker (A) WaW

[captainwalker]

TripleA Turn Summary: Americans round 11

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World At War, version: 2.1.1

Game History

Round: 11

    Combat Move - Americans
        1 Tank moved from Darfur to Hun
              Americans take Hun from Italians
        1 Infantry moved from Christmas to 98 Sea Zone
        1 Infantry and 1 S.Submarine moved from 98 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
        1 Infantry moved from 109 Sea Zone to Ponape
              Americans take Ponape from Yamamoto
        1 Adv.Fighter moved from 72 Sea Zone to 85 Sea Zone
        1 Adv.Fighter moved from 88 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        1 Adv.Fighter moved from 85 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        6 Adv.Fighters, 1 B.Carrier, 3 B.Transports, 2 Battleships, 3 Carriers, 1 Cruiser, 8 Destroyers, 2 S.Submarines, 3 Submarines and 1 Transport moved from 107 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 4 Adv.Fighters, 2 Artillerys, 1 Battleship, 1 Carrier, 2 Destroyers, 8 Infantrys, 1 Submarine and 2 Tanks; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat - Americans
        Battle in 93 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 8 Adv.Fighters, 1 B.Carrier, 3 B.Transports, 2 Battleships, 3 Carriers, 1 Cruiser, 8 Destroyers, 2 S.Submarines, 3 Submarines and 1 Transport
            Hisaichi defend with 1 Battleship, 1 Carrier and 4 L.Fighters; Yamamoto defend with 2 B.Carriers, 1 B.Transport, 2 Battleships, 2 Carriers, 2 Destroyers, 2 L.Fighters, 1 Submarine and 3 Transports; Thai defend with 3 Adv.Fighters and 1 Fighter
                Americans roll dice for 2 S.Submarines and 3 Submarines in 93 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/5 hits, 2.00 expected hits
            Units damaged: 1 B.Carrier owned by the Yamamoto
                Yamamoto roll dice for 1 Submarine in 93 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 8 Adv.Fighters, 1 B.Carrier, 3 B.Transports, 2 Battleships, 3 Carriers, 1 Cruiser, 8 Destroyers and 1 Transport in 93 Sea Zone, round 2 : 9/23 hits, 9.17 expected hits
            Units damaged: 2 Battleships owned by the Yamamoto, 1 B.Carrier owned by the Yamamoto and 1 Battleship owned by the Hisaichi
                Yamamoto roll dice for 3 Adv.Fighters, 2 B.Carriers, 1 B.Transport, 3 Battleships, 3 Carriers, 2 Destroyers, 1 Fighter, 6 L.Fighters and 3 Transports in 93 Sea Zone, round 2 : 15/24 hits, 12.33 expected hits
            Units damaged: 1 B.Carrier owned by the Americans and 2 Battleships owned by the Americans
                5 Destroyers owned by the Americans, 3 B.Transports owned by the Americans, 3 Carriers owned by the Americans, 1 Submarine owned by the Yamamoto, 1 Transport owned by the Americans, 3 Transports owned by the Yamamoto and 1 B.Transport owned by the Yamamoto lost in 93 Sea Zone
                Americans roll dice for 2 S.Submarines and 3 Submarines in 93 Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/5 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 8 Adv.Fighters, 1 B.Carrier, 2 Battleships, 1 Cruiser and 3 Destroyers in 93 Sea Zone, round 3 : 7/15 hits, 7.00 expected hits
                Yamamoto roll dice for 3 Adv.Fighters, 2 B.Carriers, 3 Battleships, 3 Carriers, 2 Destroyers, 1 Fighter and 6 L.Fighters in 93 Sea Zone, round 3 : 12/20 hits, 11.67 expected hits
                1 Carrier owned by the Hisaichi, 3 Destroyers owned by the Americans, 3 Submarines owned by the Americans, 1 Carrier owned by the Yamamoto, 3 Adv.Fighters owned by the Thai, 1 Cruiser owned by the Americans, 1 Destroyer owned by the Yamamoto, 1 Fighter owned by the Thai and 5 Adv.Fighters owned by the Americans lost in 93 Sea Zone
                Americans roll dice for 2 S.Submarines in 93 Sea Zone, round 4 : 0/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 3 Adv.Fighters, 1 B.Carrier and 2 Battleships in 93 Sea Zone, round 4 : 2/6 hits, 3.00 expected hits
                Yamamoto roll dice for 2 B.Carriers, 3 Battleships, 1 Carrier, 1 Destroyer and 6 L.Fighters in 93 Sea Zone, round 4 : 10/13 hits, 7.83 expected hits
            1 B.Carrier owned by the Americans, 1 L.Fighter owned by the Yamamoto, 2 Battleships owned by the Americans, 1 Destroyer owned by the Yamamoto, 3 Adv.Fighters owned by the Americans and 2 S.Submarines owned by the Americans lost in 93 Sea Zone
            Yamamoto win with 2 B.Carriers, 3 Battleships, 1 Carrier and 5 L.Fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -202
            Casualties for Americans: 8 Adv.Fighters, 1 B.Carrier, 3 B.Transports, 2 Battleships, 3 Carriers, 1 Cruiser, 8 Destroyers, 2 S.Submarines, 3 Submarines and 1 Transport
            Casualties for Yamamoto: 1 B.Transport, 1 Carrier, 2 Destroyers, 1 L.Fighter, 1 Submarine and 3 Transports
            Casualties for Hisaichi: 1 Carrier
            Casualties for Thai: 3 Adv.Fighters and 1 Fighter

    Non Combat Move - Americans
        3 B.Transports, 1 Battleship, 1 Carrier, 5 Destroyers, 1 S.Submarine and 3 Submarines moved from 88 Sea Zone to 87 Sea Zone
        1 Adv.Fighter moved from Pearl Harbor to 87 Sea Zone
        1 Destroyer and 2 Transports moved from 72 Sea Zone to 71 Sea Zone
        1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 2 Destroyers and 1 Submarine moved from 72 Sea Zone to 87 Sea Zone
        4 Infantrys moved from San Francisco to 83 Sea Zone
        1 B.Transport and 4 Infantrys moved from 83 Sea Zone to 89 Sea Zone
        4 Infantrys moved from 89 Sea Zone to Midway
        1 B.Transport moved from 74 Sea Zone to 83 Sea Zone
        1 Bomber moved from Alaska to Wake
        1 Artillery and 7 Infantrys moved from Darfur to Kufra
        1 Tank moved from Belgian Congo to Darfur
        1 Artillery and 1 Infantry moved from Belgian Congo to Equatoria
        2 Infantrys moved from Belgian Congo to Equatoria
        1 Artillery and 1 Infantry moved from Mauritania to 34 Sea Zone
        1 Artillery, 1 Infantry and 1 Transport moved from 34 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
        1 Submarine moved from 31 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
        1 Artillery and 1 Infantry moved from 41 Sea Zone to Andalusia
        1 Infantry moved from W.Morocco to E.Morocco
        1 B.Transport moved from 41 Sea Zone to 31 Sea Zone
        1 Cruiser moved from 41 Sea Zone to 31 Sea Zone
        1 Artillery and 1 Infantry moved from Mauritania to 31 Sea Zone
        2 Infantrys moved from Rio de Oro to 31 Sea Zone
        1 Artillery, 1 B.Transport, 1 Cruiser and 3 Infantrys moved from 31 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
        1 Artillery and 3 Infantrys moved from 41 Sea Zone to Andalusia
        4 Infantrys moved from Bahia to 35 Sea Zone
        2 Infantrys moved from Salvador to 35 Sea Zone
        1 B.Transport, 6 Infantrys and 1 Transport moved from 35 Sea Zone to 34 Sea Zone
        6 Infantrys moved from 34 Sea Zone to Mauritania
        1 Transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 AAGun and 1 Infantry moved from Salvador to 35 Sea Zone
        1 AAGun, 1 Infantry and 1 Transport moved from 35 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        1 AAGun and 1 Infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Mauritania
        1 B.Transport moved from 38 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 B.Transport moved from 32 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        1 AAGun and 2 Infantrys moved from South Atlantic USA to 26 Sea Zone
        1 Infantry moved from South Central USA to South Atlantic USA
        1 AAGun, 1 B.Transport and 2 Infantrys moved from 26 Sea Zone to 32 Sea Zone
        1 AAGun and 2 Infantrys moved from 32 Sea Zone to Bahia

    Place Units - Americans
        1 Battleship and 1 Destroyer placed in 41 Sea Zone
        2 Adv.Fighters placed in 87 Sea Zone
        1 Carrier placed in 71 Sea Zone
        2 Adv.Fighters placed in 71 Sea Zone
        2 Artillerys placed in Salvador
        1 Infantry and 2 Tanks placed in Rio de Oro
        4 Infantrys placed in San Francisco
        1 Destroyer and 1 Submarine placed in 83 Sea Zone
        3 Infantrys placed in South Atlantic USA

    Turn Complete - Americans
        Americans collect 130 PUs; end with 130 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Yamamoto regular : 4.83
Americans regular : -5.17

Territory Summary for Americans :

Zhigansk : 1 Tank
Kolyma : 2 Infantrys
Kufra : 1 Artillery and 7 Infantrys
Hun : 1 flag, 1 Tank
Mauritania : 1 AAGun, 1 Bomber and 7 Infantrys
E.Morocco : 1 Artillery, 10 Infantrys and 8 Tanks
Minamitori : 1 flag, 1 Infantry
Kwajalein : 1 flag
Ulithi : 1 flag
Eniwetok : 1 flag
Rongelap : 1 flag
Jaluit : 1 flag
Yap : 1 flag
Equatoria : 1 Artillery and 3 Infantrys
Darfur : 1 Tank
New Caledonia : 1 Infantry
Washington : 1 AAGun and 1 Factory
San Francisco : 1 Factory and 4 Infantrys
Pearl Harbor : 1 AAGun, 1 Factory and 1 Infantry
South Central USA : 1 AAGun and 1 Factory
Ponape : 1 Infantry
Wake : 1 AAGun, 1 Artillery, 1 Bomber, 1 Bunker, 1 Elite, 1 Factory, 5 Infantrys, 1 Marine and 1 Tank
Alaska : 1 Factory, 5 Infantrys and 1 Tank
Midway : 4 Infantrys
Kermandec : 1 Infantry
South Atlantic USA : 1 Factory and 5 Infantrys
Bahia : 1 flag, 1 AAGun and 2 Infantrys
W.Mexico : 1 flag
Salvador : 1 flag, 2 Artillerys, 1 Factory and 2 Infantrys
Peru : 1 flag
Rio De Janeiro : 1 flag
Belgian Congo : 1 flag
Central America : 1 flag
Rio de Oro : 1 flag, 1 Factory, 1 Infantry and 2 Tanks
S.Chile : 1 flag
Andalusia : 1 flag, 2 Artillerys, 1 Factory and 4 Infantrys
E.Mexico : 1 flag
N.Chile : 1 flag
Argentina : 1 flag
Santiago : 1 flag, 1 AAGun and 1 Factory
35 Sea Zone : 1 B.Transport
36 Sea Zone : 1 Transport
41 Sea Zone : 1 Adv.Fighter, 1 B.Transport, 1 Battleship, 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 2 Destroyers, 1 Fighter, 2 Submarines and 1 Transport
32 Sea Zone : 1 B.Transport
89 Sea Zone : 1 B.Transport
71 Sea Zone : 2 Adv.Fighters, 1 Carrier, 1 Destroyer and 2 Transports
83 Sea Zone : 1 B.Transport, 1 Destroyer and 1 Submarine
109 Sea Zone : 1 S.Submarine
34 Sea Zone : 1 B.Transport and 1 Transport
87 Sea Zone : 3 Adv.Fighters, 3 B.Transports, 1 Battleship, 2 Carriers, 1 Cruiser, 7 Destroyers, 1 S.Submarine and 4 Submarines

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 141 / 145
Russians : 55 / 67
Italians : 65 / 74
French : 24 / 24
Yamamoto : 58 / 72
Chinese : 33 / 40
Hisaichi : 59 / 61
British : 103 / 99
Anzac : 36 / 36
Dutch : 26 / 27
Finns : 17 / 17
Romanians : 19 / 19
Thai : 13 / 13
Americans : 130 / 130

Savegame

[captainwalker]

battle score of -202! So much for that battle calculator saying I had around 60%!
Have a Merry Christmas!

[trulpen]

@captainwalker said in #1 trulpen (X) vs captainwalker (A) WaW:

battle score of -202! So much for that battle calculator saying I had around 60%!
Have a Merry Christmas!

Ouch!

Merry Christmas!

[captainwalker]

This game is pretty much over now. I’d like to play again, same sides, but with unlimited construction and no neutral flyover.

[trulpen]

I’m ok with those options, although I dread bunker-stacks for both sides.

I think inf and tanks are too cheap, but it’s a bit of work to change it and a lot of work to find something more balanced.

One thing I really want to implement if I’m to play this version again are the rules regarding subs. a) They can’t block movement. b) They can’t be hit by air unless there’re des present. c) Des negates sub’s abilities of first-strike and unrestricted movement.

I believe those rules should be in effect regarding the basic rule-set (A&A42 Rev.) and thus should be player-enforced. I think that’s the designer’s intent, although I can’t say why the coding of the map doesn’t include it already.

Another thing I’d like to change are the blitz-capacity of mechs and a-cars. They could be able to join tanks in blitzing as a pair, but being able to blitz by themselves is just plain wrong. Of course, changing their ability should also affect their price.

[trulpen]

There’s another thing I came to think of. It’s also connected with the thai failure against the tr, which actually probably taunted US to make a rational, yet catastrophic, attack on the JN.

I really don’t like that trannies have defense value. I’d prefer to play with the G40-rules there, that they have 0 defense and also can’t be taken as causalties before war-ships and/or air.

[captainwalker]

Subs being able to block ship movement and transports having a defense value of one are part of Revised rules…those aren’t game options. Implementing rule changes would be a editing nightmare…

[trulpen]

@captainwalker said in #1 trulpen (X) vs captainwalker (A) WaW:

Subs being able to block ship movement and transports having a defense value of one are part of Revised rules…those aren’t game options. Implementing rule changes would be a editing nightmare…

I agree that editing would be cumbersome.

Have looked into the '42-rules from 2004. I’m not 100 % sure, but think that is Revised. Have tried to dig out rules regarding subs and des below:

“Destroyers […] limit enemy submarine capabilities.” (11)

“Submarines may move through hostile sea zones as if they were friendly, and they do not have to engage enemy sea units in those zones. However, a submarine that ends its combat move in a hostile sea zone must enter combat. In addition, the presence of a destroyer in the same sea zone ends the submarine’s move.” (13)

“Opening Fire Casualties […] If a destroyer is present in a combat involving enemy submarines, the destroyer’s player skips this step. The submarines’ casualties can fire back at the normal time in the combat sequence.” (16)

“Submarines on both sides may retreat during this step by
submerging. […] It remains submerged until the end of the noncombat move phase. (Submerged submarines do not stop enemy sea units from moving through their sea zone.)” (16-17)

“PHASE 5: NONCOMBAT MOVE […] Sea units can move through any friendly sea zones. They cannot move through hostile sea zones, except when the enemy forces consist of only submerged submarines. […] Submarines cannot end their noncombat move in hostile sea zones. At the end of this phase, all submerged submarines resurface. This does not trigger combat, even if there are enemy units in that sea zone” (21)

“If a sea zone is occupied by enemy units other than submerged submarines, your sea units end their movement and enter combat. Submarines are an exception: They can pass through a hostile sea zone without stopping, unless there is a destroyer present (see Destroyers, below).” (28)

“Special Abilities
Submarine Disruption: A destroyer cancels the special abilities of submarines (see Submarines, below). Enemy submarines cannot move freely through a sea zone containing your destroyer. If you have a destroyer in a combat, the casualties of enemy submarines can return fire. Also, enemy submarines cannot submerge while your destroyer is present.” (29)

[trulpen]

From another rule-book of '42. I’m actually not sure exactly what Revised is.

"Submarines

Does Not Block Enemy Movement: The “stealth” ability of submarines also allows enemy ships to ignore their presence.
Any sea zone that contains only enemy submarines does not stop the movement of a sea unit. Sea units ending their combat
movement in a sea zone containing only enemy submarines may choose to attack them or not. Sea units can also end their
noncombat movement in a sea zone containing only enemy submarines.

Cannot Be Hit by Air Units: When attacking or defending, hits scored by air units cannot be assigned to submarines unless
there is a destroyer that is friendly to the air units in the battle." (30)

[trulpen]

Anyway, maybe it’s of no consequence.

[captainwalker]

Revised rules are different from 1942. Revised came out before 1942… I think it was the game that followed the original A&A.

[trulpen]

I believe I’ve got the Revised rules. The version is from 2004, right?

[captainwalker]

no…those aren’t Revised rules. In A&A Revised subs block ship movement unless the sub is submerged and air units can hit subs…
https://axisallies.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/axis-allies-rules-revised.pdf