Game History
Round: 1 Purchase Units - Germans Germans buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Germans 3 armour moved from Greater Southern Germany to France 1 artillery moved from Western Germany to France 3 infantry moved from Western Germany to France 2 artilleries moved from Holland Belgium to France 2 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France 3 armour moved from Holland Belgium to France 4 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to France 1 submarine moved from 124 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 108 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 103 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone 2 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 110 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Norway to 111 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 111 Sea Zone 1 battleship moved from 113 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 117 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to Yugoslavia 1 fighter moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia 6 infantry moved from Greater Southern Germany to Yugoslavia 1 armour moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia 1 armour moved from Romania to Yugoslavia Combat - Germans British scrambles 3 units out of United Kingdom to defend against the attack in 110 Sea Zone Battle in 111 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Germans 1 fighter owned by the Germans, 1 bomber owned by the Germans and 1 tactical_bomber owned by the Germans retreated 1 battleship owned by the Germans and 2 submarines owned by the Germans retreated to 112 Sea Zone British win with 1 battleship and 1 cruiser remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8 Casualties for British: 1 destroyer Battle in Yugoslavia Germans attack with 2 armour, 1 fighter, 6 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber Neutral_Allies defend with 5 infantry Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Neutral_Allies with 2 armour, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6 Casualties for Germans: 3 infantry Casualties for Neutral_Allies: 5 infantry Battle in 110 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 bomber, 3 fighters, 2 submarines and 3 tactical_bombers British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 2 fighters; French defend with 1 cruiser and 1 fighter Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Germans win with 1 bomber, 2 fighters, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 42 Casualties for Germans: 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 2 fighters Casualties for French: 1 cruiser and 1 fighter Battle in France Germans attack with 6 armour, 3 artilleries, 5 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys British defend with 1 armour and 1 artillery; French defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Germans captures 19PUs while taking French capital Germans converts factory_major into different units Germans win, taking France from French with 6 armour, 1 artillery and 2 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 22 Casualties for Germans: 2 artilleries, 5 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys Casualties for French: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Casualties for British: 1 armour and 1 artillery Battle in 106 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 submarine British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport Germans win, taking 106 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 15 Casualties for British: 1 destroyer and 1 transport Trigger Germans Conquer France: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachment_French_1_Liberation_Switch attached to French triggerFrenchDestroyPUsGermans: Setting destroysPUs to true for playerAttachment attached to French Non Combat Move - Germans 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 111 Sea Zone to Western Germany 2 fighters moved from 110 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 bomber moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany 3 infantry moved from Norway to Finland Germans take Finland from Neutral_Axis 1 infantry moved from Romania to Bulgaria Germans take Bulgaria from Neutral_Axis 1 fighter moved from Yugoslavia to Southern Italy 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yugoslavia to Western Germany 1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to France 1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium 2 infantry moved from Denmark to Western Germany 1 cruiser and 1 transport moved from 114 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone 1 aaGun moved from Germany to Slovakia Hungary 1 aaGun moved from Germany to Poland 1 infantry moved from Germany to Poland 1 artillery moved from Greater Southern Germany to Western Germany 1 artillery moved from Greater Southern Germany to Germany Place Units - Germans 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine placed in 112 Sea Zone Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 39 PUs; end with 58 PUs Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 63 PUs Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 68 PUsLeague General Discussion Thread
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@farmboy Thanks. Personally, I prefer OOB but I don’t imagine I’ll be in playoffs 2021 League but it will be fun to spectate! I dont think the mega bids are a bad thing. Opens up a lot of creative options.
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@bretters said in League General Discussion Thread:
@oysteilo
Does anyone really only prefer to play OOB?Yes.
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@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
@bretters said in League General Discussion Thread:
@oysteilo
Does anyone really only prefer to play OOB?Yes.
U prefer OOB over BM? Xd
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@farmboy said in League General Discussion Thread:
@Colt45554 in the playoffs, the default is oob so a player who prefers oob can insist on that. But the practice now has been BM, and it’s rare that a playoff game, especially in the top 8 is oob. So the issue is whether oob remains the default option when it is not often played here.
And what about PTV? But that question is more for the future.
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@oysteilo said in League General Discussion Thread:
It is definately a problem that the rules dont reflect the majority of the games. I think it should be changed. But not sure to what.
I think most likely it has to be:
- BM only.
- All 3 versions, OOB, BM, PTV
Actually, the issue looks more to be whether there should be a set hierarchy, i e default. I think there is today, and that is OOB.
Imo the most proper relation would be:
- BM3
- OOB
- P2V (since it’s still under construction)
This would mean that if there’s a conflict regarding version, BM3 takes precedence over OOB and P2V as the main standard of the league.
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Wow - lot of comments. Skipping over the quotes themselves…
- Surprised to hear that BM3 is so dominant. As far as I know almost no one in our gaming group has played it.
- I am an OOB Player.
- Everyone who plays in the League should be allowed to present their opinion. Especially since, my understanding is, there are more than just one Tier of playoffs.
- While I like OOB over BM3, and I have detailed why before, at least BM3 and OOB are on the same map and have similar rules. PtV is frankly a completely different game with a dramatically different map and ruleset. I have no problem with people agreeing to play PtV in League games but if that is a League game why not also allow Big World 1942 or Great War or Pact of Steel as League games? Playoffs should be limited to BM3 or OOB as they are both on the same Global 1940 2nd Edition map at least.
- I agree that League play can be more loose than any playoffs since people can choose to play against each other or not. For the playoffs I would not want to be forced to play in a game I am at a serious disadvantage at just because someone else wants to play a game they like more than another version. At the same time I would not want to force people to play a version they do not want to play. Therefore League Playoff versions should be determined ahead of time so we all know what we are getting into for the Playoffs and whether we want to participate or not.
Finally for me OOB is an official Axis and Allies game. Yes, it requires a bid but it is still the official version. BM3 and PtV are not official and playing them instead of OOB fractures the gaming community. I guess a question could be what is the point of the League and this website. To promote any wargaming or promote Axis and Allies wargaming?
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Finally for me OOB is an official Axis and Allies game. Yes, it requires a bid but it is still the official version. BM3 and PtV are not official and playing them instead of OOB fractures the gaming community. I guess a question could be what is the point of the League and this website. To promote any wargaming or promote Axis and Allies wargaming?
Games evolve over time, in part due to sites like this. What you call OOB doesn’t match the game out of the
Box unless you have second edition so clearly AA games can evolve. Probably Larry and company should have done more to continue to evolve the game but they are a business and continuing to support a game well after being released is probably challenging (though at some other they still support it).I think most of us play the game for fun. Obviously that means different things for different people.
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@ksmckay said in League General Discussion Thread:
What is the plan for the league playoffs this year.
The league rules are a bit outdated and I don’t believe they reflect the league as it is being played. Up until the release of PTV this year 99% (didnt actually calculate but its close to this) of the games the last few years have been BM3. The 2018 playoffs and 2019 playoffs were both conducted using BM3 since that is the game the the league actually plays. This year things are a little different as PTV was released and allowed with league rules.
The rankings as they are (with one exception) reflect BM3 play. I dont see how its reasonable to have any game other than BM3 used to determine league champion. I also think league champion means absolutely nothing outside of the context of this community so I think its perfectly reasonable for the community to decide how things are considered which is why I am asking.
I think at minimum there should be a league playoff where the sole game played is BM3. If there is enough interest I think there could also be a PTV bracket. But I think that would be better for next year when the game has time to be further developed. The PTV game as it is has been changed several times throughout the season and while I like the idea of a PTV tourney, I dont think there is a real way to determine participants based on exisiting scoring. Cant just take the top 8 and put them in a PTV tourney since a good portion of the top 8 have played almost no PTV.
I will admit that I am biased to this discussion. As things stand now if everyone in top 8 were to participate in tourney I as the 4th seed would probably be forced into playing OOB which I wont do as I have played zero games of OOB. I rejoined the league after a several year hiatus 3 or so years ago and at that time the league was playing BM3 almost exclusively so recognizing that that was the game the league was playing, that is the game I chose to play. Having an OOB game determine playoffs in a BM3 league makes no sense (and would only be considered because the league rules were never really updated and so a loophole exists that doesnt reflect play in the league).
Sorry for the long post…
I second everything said here. I play BM3 exclusively, and I’m really not up for playing other variants, and certainly not PTV for the championship tournament. So I too will simply sit out if BM3 is not made the default going forward. I think we have the vast number of games being played as BM3 to warrant this kind of change.
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@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:
Hmm, perhaps P2V should have a separate league. I guess Gamerman01 wouldn’t really want to moderate two leagues though. I would consider doing it.
I think PTV should most definitely be separated into its own league. Let’s not kid ourselves, it’s quite a different game, and far more involved, especially with all the complexity surrounding the land and sea scrambling rules. Different and bigger map, different rules, different Strats, and so on.
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@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
@oysteilo said in League General Discussion Thread:
It is definately a problem that the rules dont reflect the majority of the games. I think it should be changed. But not sure to what.
I think most likely it has to be:
- BM only.
- All 3 versions, OOB, BM, PTV
Actually, the issue looks more to be whether there should be a set hierarchy, i e default. I think there is today, and that is OOB.
Imo the most proper relation would be:
- BM3
- OOB
- P2V (since it’s still under construction)
This would mean that if there’s a conflict regarding version, BM3 takes precedence over OOB and P2V as the main standard of the league.
I concur, except I think P2V should have its own tournament, and probably its own league too.
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@axis-dominion said in League General Discussion Thread:
@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
@oysteilo said in League General Discussion Thread:
It is definately a problem that the rules dont reflect the majority of the games. I think it should be changed. But not sure to what.
I think most likely it has to be:
- BM only.
- All 3 versions, OOB, BM, PTV
Actually, the issue looks more to be whether there should be a set hierarchy, i e default. I think there is today, and that is OOB.
Imo the most proper relation would be:
- BM3
- OOB
- P2V (since it’s still under construction)
This would mean that if there’s a conflict regarding version, BM3 takes precedence over OOB and P2V as the main standard of the league.
I concur, except I think P2V should have its own tournament, and probably its own league too.
For example, it may well be possible that someone might want to play in both leagues, and participate in both championship tournaments.
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@axis-dominion said in League General Discussion Thread:
@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:
Hmm, perhaps P2V should have a separate league. I guess Gamerman01 wouldn’t really want to moderate two leagues though. I would consider doing it.
I think PTV should most definitely be separated into its own league. Let’s not kid ourselves, it’s quite a different game, and far more involved, especially with all the complexity surrounding the land and sea scrambling rules. Different and bigger map, different rules, different Strats, and so on.
Interesting, I think you should give it a go at some point. Perhaps you want to wait for the rules to be more refined but I think it improves in many areas. Don’t agree with everything of course.
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@axis-dominion said in League General Discussion Thread:
@axis-dominion said in League General Discussion Thread:
@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
@oysteilo said in League General Discussion Thread:
It is definately a problem that the rules dont reflect the majority of the games. I think it should be changed. But not sure to what.
I think most likely it has to be:
- BM only.
- All 3 versions, OOB, BM, PTV
Actually, the issue looks more to be whether there should be a set hierarchy, i e default. I think there is today, and that is OOB.
Imo the most proper relation would be:
- BM3
- OOB
- P2V (since it’s still under construction)
This would mean that if there’s a conflict regarding version, BM3 takes precedence over OOB and P2V as the main standard of the league.
I concur, except I think P2V should have its own tournament, and probably its own league too.
For example, it may well be possible that someone might want to play in both leagues, and participate in both championship tournaments.
I agree.
In 2021 we should have 2 leagues, 1 for BM, 1 for PTV cus its a new game.
Its like tennis, U have single matches and league, and u have the doubles one.
If somebody thinks it will be hard to enter both playoffs, we can reduce the number of games played to get to play off, from 8 to less, especially in PTV; maybe 5
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I agree. P2V would preferably have it’s own league. In the best of worlds.
No need to reduce the number of games anywhere. I’d happily play full monty obän both scenes. 😁
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Just a couple of more comments. I think we all understand the need for clear guidelines when it comes to playoffs. If you only have played BM and then in the playoffs are drawn against someone who insists on OOB it comes across as unfair. That is certainly a valid point. But you can also argue the other way too and especially since the rule sates OOB is default. I think we need to update the rules! But how??
The argument to the majority is that no one plays OOB, so it doesn’t matter if you allow it in the regular season if they, the majority, are not required to play it in the playoffs. To me this is meaningless and borderline selfish. There is no motivation to play OOB in regular league play if you are required to play BM in the playoffs. That is a sure death penalty to OOB competitive play. Is that what the League wants?
The only solution I see is to have three leagues, one for OOB, one for BM and one for PtV. Then we avoid all arguments about what to play. If no one wants to play OOB then that league will die after a season or two, but the OOB could also get revitalized, I think. Really it is not that much work to record results for different games in different ranking sheets. I really don’t see why it is a problem. Nothing prevents people from playing all three leagues if they like. Also, if we are worried about no one playing OOB you may remove the 8 games cap for playoffs and introduce a 3 or 4 game rule.
I also think a solution like this will make it easier to keep all players at this site. We desperately need every single player! If everyone gets to play what they want even for the playoffs its easier to keep players too. I think players in many situations are “forced” to play BM because “everyone” wants that, and they feel expected to.
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@oysteilo I agree with you and would welcome your solutions.
This brings huge credit to, since you seem like a person who aknoledge issues/ problems and also files on solutions and present them.
Very good!I would add that it could also easily maintained with specific league badges wich are showing that you either a prefferable Oob or BM or PtV Player or have a multibadge wich reflects that you are good to play all or certain two versions of G40.
We discussed a badge solution for League members a while ago, when this site became a New facelifting.
Maybe it is this time to get more serious about that.I suffered this season to play a version where i am less comfortable with. And would be open to the ideas of three different brackets.
And i would also mention, that i was beat fair and square and accepted it without a mourning!
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I think you make some very good points, sir! I’m all in favour of separating the versions into different leagues. Makes a lot of sense.
I for one would absolutely never play OOBsolete in a playoff ever again. Not under any circumstance, since for me OOB is just not interesting enough (single-minded recipy of GDOW2 crush Moscow + bomber-spam and JDOW1 rule the Pac). Simply out of the question for me.
I know that others have exactly the opposite view. Separation thus is the way to go.
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The above was of course in response to @oysteilo.
@aequitas-et-veritas said in League General Discussion Thread:
We discussed a badge solution for League members a while ago, when this site became a New facelifting.
Maybe it is this time to get more serious about that.Great idea!
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@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
I agree. P2V would preferably have it’s own league. In the best of worlds.
No need to reduce the number of games anywhere. I’d happily play full monty obän both scenes. 😁
Well, U re not average player xd
So i think 5 games could be entry point for the play-offs, but maybe limited to 2 games against one opponent,
or 3 games as entry point, but only 1 game against one opponent.
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And I have one proposal.
Since BM is very cool game without switching to PTV, and a lot of guys is playing it still,
discovering new strategies, ways of play.
I would consider we invest in further develop of BM, i mean about the price of units, and some little (but important) changes that were done in PTV, would be done in BM (like bombers cost 14) , but still not too big changes so it becomes a new game (like PTV with carrier and air scrambling, and new territories etc.).
We shall see how much PTV will be played, i think that BM will stay the dominant version in the years to come.
Especially if we upgrade him a bit.
cheers